[Maxer]

But really these two things are tied together because if your rendering scenes that are this large with that many objects in them isn't speed also a large factor? It's more relevant to talk about this in terms of interior scenes since they are about 5 times slower to render than exteriors.

[b-kandor]

I've personally never been concerned about speed. It's obvious that the calculations maxwell does are required to produce renders of this quality. Making it faster would imply a compromise (bias) so I don't want that.

Speed improvements are not always connected with quality loss.
No software is coded perfectly.
That means any software can be optimised.
Speed-wise too.

Sure, I know that I wonder what would happen if the render engine were coded in assembler? But at the end of the day the type of rendering that maxwell does needs a good chunk of horsepower - I'd be surprised (happily -mind you) if this were to change 'dramatically'.

Kandor

[b-kandor]

displacement? shift lens? procedurals? ies? volumetric shaders? improved sky system?...
this all should have been already implemented in v1.0 - as announced long long time ago in good old alpha/beta times ...should be worth a 1.5

These are my main concern. That we don't need to pay (2.0) for what we were promised...

.... memory leaks, z-depth, proper SSS......

With all of the basic things that are still not functioning properly - and I'm not talking about wishlist sort of things, but basic functions found in every rendering system - I'd be hesitant to call what we have now as a full Version 1.

At the risk of being called 'Mr Negativity," I'm very curious as to what point in development will NL decide to call this a wrap, and start selling version 2? Am I going to have to pay for an upgrade in order to get a fully functional, bugless rendering program? What exactly WILL we have when we finally reach version 1.99999?

I am pleased that we are finally going to be getting an update after so long, and that there have been strides to make improvements. The memory optimization is a great step. But without knowing what this mysterious "extended and improved" feature list actually consists of, I can't bring myself to get very excited.

I'd much rather have the basics working correctly. Give me those, then I'll be happy. After that, you can throw in as many new and extended features as you like. Then I can get excited.

Yes, I can, and have been using what has been developed so far. However, I still don't feel like I've received what I paid for.

Right now, I've got a really sleek and sexy looking car, and the chicks are really digging it. But I still have to stick my arm out the window to signal a turn.........

I'd really like to know what kind of car you have! My volkswagon tdi isn't working with the chicks that well...

[mverta]

In any case, with the speed issue, you're always up against a grotesque amount of math that needs to get done. It's not like if you just optimized the software enough, it'd run in realtime. At some point, there's just a dependence on how much processor power there is, which is fortunately improving daily. But like I said, it's not like NL chooses speed OR features. Everybody wants everything to go faster. It's just that there's only so much you can do before it's up to the processor(s) again.

_Mike

[michaelplogue]

I'd really like to know what kind of car you have! My volkswagon tdi isn't working with the chicks that well...

(I wish! )

[Maxer]

I guess we are all under the impression from previous announcements that there is room for speed improvements. If your saying that the code has been optimized to the point where it's not possible to make Maxwell any faster (this is something I've never heard from NL before) then I can understand where your coming from Mike. If this is the case then they should just come out and say it and end the debate, is that what you've done.

[mverta]

I am absolutely not saying that. If I had said, "The code has been optimized to the point where it's not possible to make Maxwell any faster," then I would understand your point. But I didn't. I said that speed improvements are important, but that there is a limit to how much you can do, optimizations-wise. You can't optimize Maxwell into realtime performance. There's just too much math. I further said that there seems - to me - to be more requests for features than emphasis on speed, though everyone would agree faster is nicer.

_Mike

[pluMmet]

.... memory leaks, z-depth, proper SSS......

With all of the basic things that are still not functioning properly - and I'm not talking about wishlist sort of things, but basic functions found in every rendering system - I'd be hesitant to call what we have now as a full Version 1.

At the risk of being called 'Mr Negativity," I'm very curious as to what point in development will NL decide to call this a wrap, and start selling version 2? Am I going to have to pay for an upgrade in order to get a fully functional, bugless rendering program? What exactly WILL we have when we finally reach version 1.99999?

I am pleased that we are finally going to be getting an update after so long, and that there have been strides to make improvements. The memory optimization is a great step. But without knowing what this mysterious "extended and improved" feature list actually consists of, I can't bring myself to get very excited.

I'd much rather have the basics working correctly. Give me those, then I'll be happy. After that, you can throw in as many new and extended features as you like. Then I can get excited.

Yes, I can, and have been using what has been developed so far. However, I still don't feel like I've received what I paid for.

Right now, I've got a really sleek and sexy looking car, and the chicks are really digging it. But I still have to stick my arm out the window to signal a turn.........

How could anyone not agree with this?

_________________________________

"Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets. Imagination without skill gives us modern art." - Tom Stoppard

Cool quote BTW

[numerobis]

if i remember correctly nl hasn't said that rs1 can be optimized in speed since they found the real key to speed optimization and told us all to buy 9 1/2 pc's to get the optimal speed...

[JTB]

I think I am one of the best NL clients, I do 99% exteriors and Maxwell works very well, I don't even care about dielectrics problems. All I want is more speed. Of course displacement would be nice and a correct sun/sky and a better HDRI envir. handling.
But, I guess that with a better studio, better material editor, and better memory usage, we will get better results too.

I will agree that until we learn the detailed features list we have to control our enthousiasm (don't do it like me with my huge BRAVO!)

Anyway, Nicole will soon (!) tell us

[Maxer]

It's not like if you just optimized the software enough, it'd run in realtime. At some point, there's just a dependence on how much processor power there is, which is fortunately improving daily.

This is what made me say that Mike, and if I'm not mistaken you've said this before. This makes it sound like NL is relying on hardware improvements to speed up their render engine and like I've said before this isn't the answer to making Maxwell faster.

[KRZ]

yeah then why dont you bend the universe if you want to travel faster???

[iandavis]

KRZ, the maxwell equivilant to that would be... umm... buying new hardware? well, as long as it's not an 8 core universe eh?

The jump from 1.1 to 1.5 isn't an unusual thing, others have done it. Though it does need to mean that they are theoretically half way between Version 1 and Version 2. What does that mean? So, I don't think the version number bump is a big deal... since they could work on 1.6, 1.7, 1.7.1, 1.7.2, etc. however what disturbs me is that NL feels maxwell is at a V1.5 status. Yes, they may have sunk a LOT of time/money into the upgrade, but seriously, there ARE features still not present that were discussed and PROMISED before I bought the ALPHA version. Soooooo... though I recognize that NL has pulled a minor miracle out of the collective a%%es with the sheer scale and amount of work sunk into creating V1. Comparitively speaking the software is barely a full point version. I would think fixing and finishing should be the order of business before they were half way to a new version. Something like dedicated animation should be something for V2... not the stuff we were expecting for V1.

this isn't a rant. I'm relatively pleased with maxwell of late. It's usable and i have nowhere near the hair pulling crazy fits I used to getting renders out. I just wanted to point out that like many others I too feel the 1.5 moniker is a bit premature. I personally am looking forward to some of the stuff I thought would be introduced with V1. No offense NL guys. I love what can be done with maxwell. I love the texture website you set up, brilliant! I love a lot about this software.

'nuff said.

good weekend to all and to all a good weekend.[/code][/quote]

[macray]

very well said iandavis.

I can fully support your statement, though I only bought it alpha and not before...

I'm still missing some of the promised features and a fully working plugin that is as good as other plugins are. (using cinema and no studio)

I can use it but there are still things that are not possible or far to complicated to achieve so the slogan "as easy as taking a photo" is inappropriate... but I'm still waiting for it.

Otherwise I had the same feeling as others here seeing the change to v1.5 - soon we will have to pay for it again to get the features we paid for before v1.0 was out.

[3dtrialpractice]

id prefer features over speed any update..

if i want speed ill just buy more/better processors/computers. but i cant stand not having something. .if it is implimented and its slow then i just plan for the time it takes.. but nothing is slower then not having somthing or a feature that is broken (ie motionblur not workin for moving camera)