Please post here anything else (not relating to Maxwell technical matters)
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By deadalvs
#204761
to be able to strongly overclock a cpu, is watercooling really needed or can other fans work too ?

what are the risks of watercooling ? getting a new fish-bowl ?
User avatar
By michaelplogue
#204766
You can use many aftermarket air-cooled fan systems for overclocking - in some cases you can even get by using the stock fan/fins. However, if you want to "strongly" overclock your system, you will probably be better off with water cooling. Just keep in mind that with the money you can spend on water cooling equipment, you could spend on a getting faster cpu in the first place.

I have had several water cooled systems - though I don't do much overclocking any more. I've used several systems - prebuilt self contained, and from scratch using components bought separately. However, my all time favorite is the Zahlman Reserator system. Mainly because it's incredibly quite (only a small water pump). On my current Dual slot dual core opteron system, I'm using two Reserator 1-V2 towers.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2375/ ... g30c83s138

They've just come out with the Reserator 2 which looks really sweet!
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5092/ ... g30c83s138
User avatar
By deadalvs
#204768
humble thx... !

* * *

surely, such a system costs something, but there are not many «faster» cpus around ...

* * *

is it easy to put in a cooling system after the computer has been used for some time or would You consider putting it in directly when building it ?

would i have to cut and screw a lot ? this makes me a little nervous... Ya know...
User avatar
By michaelplogue
#204773
It's much easier to install the water cooling system when you are building a new computer from scratch. However, installing one really isn't hard at all if you are adapting an existing computer. You need to make sure that whatever cooling system you do get, it is compatible with whatever chipset you are using. The kits will have several adapters and/or clips that attach the cpu water block to the motherboard.

No drilling or cutting is really necessary any more - depending on what kit you decide to go with. Most kits connect to standard fan mounts or sit in an empty drive bay. If you use separate components, you can sometimes get away with just letting them sit in the bottom of the case - as long as you don't move the computer around a lot.

With AMD chips, you may need to pull out the motherboard in order to install a plastic mount on the backside of the MB - though you may be able to use the existing one if there's one there already. When you remove the old cooling fan, you need to make sure the cpu is very clean - if you need to, use a very fine grit sandpaper to give it a mirror shine. Any gunk left on the chip will reduce the efficiency of the waterblock.

The easiest systems to install are the external kits, where no case cutting is necessary. Just run the tubes and wires through an open slot in the back of the case. With external systems, you also don't have to worry about trying to cram all that extra stuff into a case (decreasing your airflow on top of everything else - which is still important for all of your other components). The only downside with the external systems is that it is a bit more difficult to move your computer without extra hands to help you.

Just as when you are normally working on your computer, make sure it's unplugged and you ground yourself. And of course, you should always test your kit for leaks before putting it into your system. Measure your tubes (giving yourself extra lenght for safety, cut and assemble the system - outside of your case - and turn it on (let it run for a few hours to make sure there are no leaks. Then, drain and disassemble it, attach the water block/s to your motherboard, and reconnect and clamp the hoses. Test it again without turning on the computer (if it's possible with the system you use) - just turn on the water pump (connect it to a spare external power supply if you have one). Check for leaks. If there aren't any, you're good to go!

Some motherboards will not run if you don't have a fan connected to the CPU fan connector. I usually just plug in one of the case fans here - just to keep the motherboard happy.

You should always use coolant additives instead of just water. Just like a car radiator, using pure water will corrode the system. Most kits will come with a bag or bottle of additive - if not, be sure to order some. And make sure you use distilled water instead of tap water. One system I had I used tap water - with an additive. It ended up getting all clogged up with a slimy mold.... :?

If you are going to use a radiator with fan system, it's just as important to check it periodically for dust and lint build-up (just like regular cpu cooling fins). I had one system that I ran almost continuously for two years without cleaning the radiator. After I vacuumed out about a pound of dust, the system ran about fifteen degrees (Fahrenheit) cooler! :oops:

If you are going to 'strongly' overclock, I'd also recommend getting a temperature gauge kit if one is not already included - so you can monitor the heat levels closely.
By numerobis
#204774
hi,

i'm under water for a couple of years now and quite happy with this sort of cooling. the best performance/noise ratio you can get, i think...
my whole rigg is watercooled (cpu,gpu,chipset,hdd) - running only one pump and one 120mm case fan @7v on the heat exchanger (radiator)... and the psu fan and one 90mm fan @5v to blow some fresh air over my videocard, cause only the gpu is covered by the watercooler. the last one you can prevent using a special gpu cooler who is covering the whole card.

i think if you know what you're doing, watercooling has no risks - only fun ( :D )

it's quite expensiv at the beginning, but if you buy a watercool sytem, you normaly can use the components for your next computer - you only need to buy a new mounting kit if the socket changes...
(i have just bought my new conroe and a new kit for socket 775... :mrgreen: )

if you only want to get a cheap cpu-only-ready-to-use watercooling you should take a look at this one http://www.tt-germany.com/product/Ligui ... -w0065.asp it's very quiet @5-7v (tested it in another conroe system e6600@3,3ghz) only the little pump is a bit louder (vibrating) than the one in my other sys.

...and, it's no problem to switch from air to water cooling if you have enough space in your case or you go for an external solution like the reserator...


i think almost every conroe today is able to run at 3-3,2ghz.
but if you plan go higher and want to be save to get a very good overclocker (conroe 3,5-3,7ghz@low voltage), you can buy a pretested cpu http://www.trend4pc.de/index.php/cPath/113_135 works very well for me - bought my last 4 cpus pretested :D
User avatar
By b-kandor
#204781
I overclock my conroe 6400 by 50% from 2.13ghz to 3.2ghz with just air. I bought a Zalman cnsp9500 LED and used as5 thermal compound.

Rendering in maxwell gives temps of 52c, 2 instances of p95 give 59-60c. Idles at 44c.

I run this machine 24/7 like this since I bought it in october. It's pretty quiet in my antec case.

Zander
User avatar
By -Adrian
#204832
hi deadalvs,

if you're in for a new challenge you can give water cooling a try. Keep in mind however, that a cheap water kit won't outperform a much cheaper high-end air cooler, so if you want the upper hand you need to dig a little deeper into your pockets, otherwise it's wasted money. Most recommend to pick the parts individually (ask on ocing boards good right now) just like when building your pc, simply to get exactly what you need.

Chips like the conroe will only really benefit from that kind cooling if you apply high vcore, otherwise they never manage to make a good air cooler sweat.

Good luck with your plans.
User avatar
By deadalvs
#204846
thanks, guys !

it seems that watercooling does a great job, indeed.

i have taken some glances around and have also found great air coolers for much less coins.

me personally, it's a strange thing to run a liquid in tubes around in a computer, also since water or distilled water isn't really a good heat-absorber, even with some added fluid things.
another negative point would lie in external devices which would make transport uncomfortable.

as far as possible, i'd go with copper and air cooling...

but it's interesting anyway !
User avatar
By Mihai
#204847
Actually water is a great thermal conductor and heat absorber. Much better than air. I'm not sure even if there are other known liquids better than water for thermal conductivity.
Before probing the two water coolers we'll be looking at today, we should take a moment to address some of the motivations behind water cooling itself. After all, if traditional CPU coolers are capable of keeping even Intel's toastiest of space heaters from melting, why bother with the tubes, fittings, water blocks, radiators, reservoirs, and additional costs associated with water cooling?

For the answer, we need to look no further than water's thermal properties, specifically how its specific heat capacity and thermal conductivity compare to that of air. Those properties help determine a material's suitability for cooling applications, and as it turns out, water is far superior to air. A substance's specific heat capacity is the amount of energy required to change the temperature of one unit mass of the substance by one degree. Specific heat capacity is commonly expressed in joules per kilogram Kelvin, with higher values reflecting a greater capacity to absorb and retain heat. Here, water has a sizeable advantage—its specific heat capacity of 4.184 J/gK is more than four times higher than air's 1.005 J/gK. Water looks even better when we consider thermal conductivity, which describes a material's ability to conduct heat. Thermal conductivity is measured in watts per meter Kelvin, and again, higher values are better. Water's 0.6062 W/mK thermal conductivity dwarfs that of air, whose thermal conductivity is only 0.0262 W/mK.
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q2/wa ... dex.x?pg=1
User avatar
By deadalvs
#204856
ah i've got a brain crisis going on since a few days...

surely, water is more dense than air. air is an isolator...

i should know that... sometimes i'm a little out of my shoes...
User avatar
By -Adrian
#204857
Well since you have to get the heat out of the water again using air, it's not that different. As soon as the water is up to temperature, the radiator is nothing but a frickin huge heat sink.

If you want to go air, i can highly recommend Scythe coolers, especially the Ninja and Infinity if your case has enough room.
User avatar
By Mihai
#204861
Yes but the radiator has a much larger surface area, so it's more efficient. They still have water radiators in cars for a reason :)
User avatar
By deadalvs
#204862
Mihai wrote:Yes but the radiator has a much larger surface area, so it's more efficient. They still have water radiators in cars for a reason :)
so cars with hydrogen motors are overclocked ? :) :)
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By b-kandor
#204869
Mineral oil is not conductive, so I've seen people with motherboards immersed completely in chilled mineral oil!!!!
User avatar
By -Adrian
#204912
Mihai wrote:Yes but the radiator has a much larger surface area, so it's more efficient. They still have water radiators in cars for a reason :)
True, if they're large enough you can run them without any fans and the water will always be very close to room temperature. The limiting factor is usually the waterblock in those cases, which simply doesn't manage to extract enough heat from the cpu into the coolant.
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