[arch4d]

by now, we can only import material by material, right?

i wanna be able to import a whole library, and i want standart material presets.

perhaps, like in c4d, ability to import an mxs as a material library.
that would be great.

and, where are the easy to setup standard materials, diffuse, plastic, etc.
i only see bsdf and coatings, but don´t know how to setup a simple diffuse white material...

do i have to study mathematics and physical behaviour of materials to set up a simple scene?

[rivoli]

but don´t know how to setup a simple diffuse white material...

for very simple diffuse mats i just set the reflectance color (i guess that as for the beta a white one shouldn't exceed 220/225) along with a very high roughness (default is 0,800, i tried with 0,900/0,950/1,000). i guess ior (or complex ior) may play a part in it, but on that i still don't have a clue, it's just trial and error.

[arch4d]

that´s what i heard, too, but that really can´t be the clue?!?

i loved maxwell cause it was easy to setup.
some clicks to setup the scene and hit render button.
this easy setup compensated the longer render times.

and now we have to setup the simplest materials by trial and error???


i think i´m not stupid and have got a good knowledge about 3d apps and
it´s use, but i don´t want to study material physics in a science way.
that´s not what i expect from a render engine, and that´s not what i paid for.

[rivoli]

well, fact is, as tom pointed out in another thread, in the real world there's no such a thing like a 100% diffuse surface. everything reflects light, and this new mat system is based on this assumption. when using the new mat editor the only difference between an old maxwell diffuse and plastic is the topology of the material/object's surface. a diffuse mat is actually a reflective mat with a very rough surface (so that you can't really make out any specular reflection).

[Mihai]

Just as rivoli mentioned arch4D, what could be simpler? The default bsdf is a rough material, ie the diffuse we're used with. It's even easier this way, and much more flexible without limiting materials to groups. It also reflects real life much better since in real life whether a material is reflecting light diffusely or specularly, depends on it's surface roughness.

[arch4d]

rivoli you´re right, but whatever is possible to simplify for the user should be done, or not ?

so, it was easy and now it´s complicated.
for me, that´s not a step forward.

perhaps i say something different, when we are able to share materials and have a complete base material library and a documentation, but for now, not even having a plugin i can use, it´s damn frustrating.

[Mihai]

arch4D, you're not even giving it a chance.......it's not more complicated, it's just different. For me, different in a good way. Many materials will be easier and more intuitive to set up using this system, than a system which divides materials up into diffuse/plastics/dielectrics/metals.

Example: Sandblasted glass with rough interior but with a clear coating which give you sharp reflections? How would you do that with your diffuse or plastics or dielectric materials?

You know what a coating is?

Coating = Anstrich (I hope that's correct)

What's a coating? It's something that goes on top of another material. Too difficult for you or what?

Give it a chance man......

[arch4d]

mihai, sorry, but for ME, it´s not simpler !

AND: I am not stupid, ok?
surely i know what a coating is, but if you´re talking about real life every time, you should agree that a material based coating is not real!

If you model a coating and give it a different material, THAT is real

And i would give it a chance if i had a working render engine and a working plugin to export my scenes.

[Mihai]

You don't model coatings several nano meters thick now do you? It's something that mus be done on the material level. Stop living in the past....

This is a huge step forward, but you want to go backwards because it feels more cozy......

[arch4d]

sorry, but as an architect these f****** coatings don´t mean the world to me !!! for me a render engine has to be an easy to setup app with a good workflow, and not something to setup materials by trial and error.

and, as i said before to rivoli:

"perhaps i say something different, when we are able to share materials and have a complete base material library and a documentation, but for now, not even having a plugin i can use, it´s damn frustrating."

and this coating shit is something for people having too much time and don´t need to hold deadlines or industrial designers, but not for me!

and as far as i know there are many architects trying to use maxwell,
until now with very good results, but i really feel like having done a timetravel back to the 80´s using dxf export to render some reflecting spheres...

[rivoli]

not something to setup materials by trial and error.

i see what you mean, but i think i shouldn't have added that "trial and error" part. actually a "diffuse" mat is very simple to achieve, just use the default one and pick a color, done. you may want to play with a higher roughness, but it's just a matter of a few seconds testing with the mat preview.
by trial and error i meant that IORs (and complex ones) do affect the mat appearence, and on this i still have to get my hands on, but you don't even have to change the default 1.0 value in order to get a "diffuse" mat, it's just up to you.

[lpotamianos]

hey, mihai you got a point there, a new system with more control and more options. But arch4d has a point too, it was easier for someone who used plain max/c4d materials to setup and go. Don't dispute over something that you don't need to