[Gear]

The now very very delayed Duke Nukem Forever been in developement almost 10 years and it's still not finished!!
/ Max[/quote]

I don't think Duke Nukem fans did pay ten yers ago for the product.
There's a thin difference. If you don't stipulate a contract with costumer, i think you can take all the time you want.

[Mihai]

So let's say you were contracting with a home builder to build you a new house. If your origional contract says the house is going to be finshed in July, then wouldent you expect it to be done then?

If it was your regular house, built a thousand times, based on the same concepts and materials, type house then I would be upset.

However if it was an experimental never befor built house, employing new materials and assembly technologies, along with new forms of energy for heating, I wouldn't say I would realistically ask them to build it on time and on budget

As buffos mentioned, his biggest problem is that he can't use Maxwell, but many people are already using it succesfully with Matador light. I'm sure it's still not suitable for EVERY project, but at least you can use it and learn it which is what all of us are doing with it at this point anyway, GUI or no GUI.

If you are saying you are loosing money because you can't use it, then you should never have bought it expecting to use a piece of alpha software as complex as a render engine in production.

Yes, I would have bought it even if they hadn't given us ANY sort of product. Strange as that may seem, I knew I wanted this render engine, and the pre order price was good enough.

[Gear]

Every kind of beta software could be free, I think, and for free beta testing, World of Warcraft is an example. If rendering engines are not in this category I was wrong and apologize

[Maxer]

It doesn’t matter if the "house" was being made out of moon rocks, if the builder advertised that they could build the house by a certain date and then didn't reach that date is that not false advertising? The point is that most reasonable people based their decision to buy Maxwell on two things, price and availability. If you take the position that you don't care when the software is finished, and don't hold them to any deadlines then your foolish. That only makes it easier for them to push back the deadline next time, since they don't have to worry about any backlash from their customer base. I don't feel sorry for NL at all, they should be working them selves to death to finish their software. We should be forcing the issue instead of laying back and accepting every delay.

[Gear]

So let's say you were contracting with a home builder to build you a new house. If your origional contract says the house is going to be finshed in July, then wouldent you expect it to be done then?

If it was your regular house, built a thousand times, based on the same concepts and materials, type house then I would be upset.

However if it was an experimental never befor built house, employing new materials and assembly technologies, along with new forms of energy for heating, I wouldn't say I would realistically ask them to build it on time and on budget

As buffos mentioned, his biggest problem is that he can't use Maxwell, but many people are already using it succesfully with Matador light. I'm sure it's still not suitable for EVERY project, but at least you can use it and learn it which is what all of us are doing with it at this point anyway, GUI or no GUI.

If you are saying you are loosing money because you can't use it, then you should never have bought it expecting to use a piece of alpha software as complex as a render engine in production.

Yes, I would have bought it even if they hadn't given us ANY sort of product. Strange as that may seem, I knew I wanted this render engine, and the pre order price was good enough.

I think that selling an house made with experimental materials ecc ecc its an operation full of risks for the one who buy it (and for sellers). I would never buy such a thing in developing stages. Maybe the roof could fall on my head. I repeat one more time: I think that these new technologies have to be tested, without asking any money at all, (in some cases developers pay beta testers) then, when theres the reach of zero bugs, you can ask for money. I know that there are other software houses that provided a non free beta to users, like V-ray (v-ray has also a demo)and others, but it's totally different with M-R because of its revolutionary engine. No one did something similiar before, so the path of the developing it's uncertain and not clear since you don't have any point to look at. This is a great goal to achieve, and i'm very pleased that there are people at NL who believe in their work, I really admire them and I think they will reach their goal, but I'm not agree with the way they aim to achieve this. I'm sorry, but i'm not happy with current progresses, there was something wrong from the start of developing, and I think that was the fact that NL asked for money since the start. People become upset if they don't feel satisfied. Mostly when there are MONEY in the game.

[Mihai]

Again Gear, they did not ask you to pay money to be a beta tester.

We paid to pre-order a product.

If you don't like taking chances, do not pre-order that product.

If you take a chance, the bonus for you is that you will get it at a considerable discount when it's finished.

That was the whole deal. If it makes you feel better, just think that you pre-ordered something, and you don't have any alphas or betas to play with, you will only get the final product. Pretend that this forum doesn't exist either, pretend nobody knows anything about Maxwell until v1 will be out.

[Maxer]

We all know that Maxwell was marketed to us based on how much we could save over the final versions price, as well as its features. By not providing a free alpha or beta they effectively sold you the full version with the promise of delivering it by a certain time, with certain features. I'm upset because I in good faith believed that NL would be able to meet the deadline they set for them selves, why would I believe otherwise? I'm also upset that they apparently knew they wouldn’t make their deadline and waited till the last minute to change it. I fully expect that the October date will not be met and sometime in late September they will push the date farther back. This is just not a good way to do business and it doesn’t matter if everyone else does it that doesn’t make it right.

[DELETED]

DELETED

[Thomas An.]

Here we are again. Same troublemakers, same topic.

In any case... I do agree with this fellow (he makes a lot of sense and I have nothing to add):

http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... ight=#7937

Sorry but you are definately wrong.
A big programming project ALWAYS is out of schedule. ALWAYS

For example take Longhorn (windows next OS). Its already 2 YEARS of schedule!!

I have done various minor projects. Unexpected bugs almost always appear and take much more than 2-3 weeks to fix.

A roadmap is not a military plan. Its an about plan.

As for good business , let me say , that no business is like the other.
I am sure that you may be the best in a kind of business but a big disaster in another one.

I wonder why you seem so frustraded.

Calm down and enjoy tommorows release

[DELETED]

DELETED

[rivoli]

In any case... I do agree with this fellow (he makes a lot of sense and I have nothing to add):

eh, he's right, only thing i wouldn't call longhorn anything like big programming.

[Maxer]

Ok this is going no where I give up.

[Gear]

Mihai, I know that you bought the final release, but using this system, it's like you buy also alpha versions, so these versions are available only for people who payed. I don't think there was the need to clarify that.

Adam, a simple question: if roadmaps are useless, what is the need to show it to users?

[Mihai]

Page 7! yeeeaah

buffos, it's like your whole career depended on this Maxwell project, and it being finished on time as announced. I perfectly understand your...uh...concerns, but you keep bringing this up. You are talking what should be, how things should be done, other people are trying to make you see also the reality of it, the situation we have and what can be done about it.

If you see it like that a bit, and just get on with your work and stop this obsession, you will perhaps save yourself some grief and be more relaxed. Eventually we will have a gui and a finished product. Maybe the gui will be here next month, maybe in october, maybe a bit later.....time goes by very fast, we all have lots of things to do so I don't really see why you are so obsessed with this, like your life depends on the GEEEUUUIIIII of Maxwell!

I'm saying this for the third time in this thread, NL haven't sold us any alphas or betas, all we did was preorder a product with a current delay of 3 months. Yes, I know you will argue this point again about how the geeeuuuuiiiii was announced in March, but just think for a minute that it's the finished product we ordered, not alphas or betas, so this finished product is currently 3 months behind (October instead of July).

I think this delay is acceptable, especially considering the type of product and the innovation involved.

[DELETED]

DELETED