[feynman]

Because the i7 3,4 GHz is at the momentary sweet spot of performance/price, I decided for two iMacs. But then, I did some component searching and pricing, looks like the i7 box with 3D modelling work capability (incl. graphics card, screen, keyboard, etc.) is below the iMac's price point, rendering only boxes stay well below, not needing various of these parts:

Intel Core i7-2600K 4/8 3,4GHz 95W socket 1155 oc <4,5GHz RAM <=1333MHz
ASUS P8Z68-M PRO uATX DDR3 1066MHz-2133MHz
ATI FirePro V4800 1GB 2560x1600px 292mm length
16GB Kingston ValueRAM DDR3 1333MHz regECC DIMM lat CL9 dual kit
Samsung SpinPoint F4 EcoGreen 2TB 5400rpm (HD204UI)
Samsung SSD 830 Series 256GB 2.5" MLC SATA600 525MB/s r 320MB/s w
Samsung SSD 830 Series 128GB 2.5" MLC SATA600 525MB/s r 320MB/s w
OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W modular cabling PSU
Lian-Li PC-V354 uATX
Scythe Kozuti SCKZT-1000 110x103x40
HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200px IPS 6ms
Cherry G84-5200LCMDE-2 XS Complete keybd. PS2/USB
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit incl. SP1

1978,91 EUR modeling and rendering box (excl. shipping of all parts from various vendors)
1050,37 EUR render only box (excl. shipping of all parts from various vendors)

2399,00 EUR Apple iMac 27" 3,4GHz Intel Core i7 4/8, 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz, 1TB HD & 256GB SSD, AMD Radeon HD 6970M, WLAN
929,00 EUR Apple Mac mini Server 2,0GHz Intel Core i7 4/8, 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz, 2x 500 GB, WLAN

At least the 3D modelling box needs a WLAN card also. Wondering if it is better taking a u-turn and go down the i7 self-build route? Advantage of the PC route is also the full colour gamut HP screen...

[numerobis]

16GB Kingston ValueRAM DDR3 1333MHz regECC DIMM lat CL9 dual kit

You don't need registered RAM for Sandy Bridge. Normal 16GB DDR3 1333MHz cl9 is only ~60-70€.

I don't know if you really need a FirePro if you consider to buy the iMac with a normal Radeon... if you don't need the OpenGL features a normal GeForce at the same price will be faster. Is this card really 29cm long?!? no?!?
But i would look for a version with silent cooling!

I don't think you need a ssd for the rendernode, but that's your decision.

HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200px IPS 6ms

Since this is a wide gamut display... do you plan to calibrate it?

2399,00 EUR Apple iMac 27" 3,4GHz Intel Core i7 4/8, 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz, 1TB HD & 256GB SSD, AMD Radeon HD 6970M, WLAN
929,00 EUR Apple Mac mini Server 2,0GHz Intel Core i7 4/8, 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz, 2x 500 GB, WLAN

Only 4GB RAM for the macs?!?

pc or mac can be only your decision i think... cost and performance (and cooling) is speaking clearly for the pc... but you don't get a pre-build box...

[feynman]

Thanks!

Ok, I'll look out for an 2x8 GB non-registered RAM in that case. With the FirePro, many 3D surface modellers have had good experiences from what I've read? I'm using Alias Automotive 2012, modo 501 and Rhino 4.0/grasshopper for 3D work, so I had the impression that this card would be reasonable for good screen response times with complex models.

As for the SSD, the list contains all necessary items, I think, so the price for a render node is without SSD as the renderings will be saved on the 3D modelling box.

On http://blog.david-kennedy.com/2009/10/2 ... p2475w-24/ I came across some telling results regarding the iMac vs. HP display which, in any case, I'd like to calibrate with my Gretag/x-rite i1Display Pro which is actually quite good to calibrate wide colour gamut displays.

Of course, the Macs would need to be fed with more RAM, which drives up the price a bit. I just thought that the performance/price difference would be larger. But putting together one's own boxes is probably good fun also ;)

[numerobis]

yes, for opengl the FirePro should be better i think.

if you don't plan to upgrade from 16GB RAM to 32GB 4x4GB would be cheaper...

I just thought that the performance/price difference would be larger.

??? What do you mean? the difference between mac and pc? i would say the performance difference is huge if you compare a 2600k overclocked to 4,5GHz with AMD FirePro to a 3,4GHz 2600 with mobile grafics...

And if i compare the prices i get 2849€ for your imac configuration with 256GB SSD and 2TB HDD - without the "cheap" RAM upgrade to 16GB for 600€ (!!! WTF?!? LOL ...so +65€) ... but maybe it's more expensive here.

This would be my config on the pc side for your microATX Lian Li with samsung ssd - do you really need a micro ATX case? i think the airflow would be better with an ATX case and you could use a tower cooler... but with a water cooler it should be ok...

Lian-Li PC-V354 uATX ... 140€
ASRock Z68 Pro3-M, Z68 Socket 1155 ... 90€
Intel Core i7-2600K, 4x 3.40GHz, boxed ... 260€
Corsair Hydro Series H80 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler ... 75€
Corsair XMS3 DIMM Kit 16GB PC3-12800U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1600) ... 65€
ATI FirePro 3D V4800, 1GB GDDR5 ... 140€
Samsung SSD 830 Series 256GB 2.5" MLC SATA600 ... 320€ (do you really need 256GB?)
Samsung SpinPoint F4 EcoGreen 2TB 5400rpm ... 120€
Seasonic M12II-620Bronze 620W ATX 2.2 ... 85€ (48A on the +12v rail!)
Cherry G83-6105, USB ... 10€
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit incl. SP1 ... 120€

HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200px IPS 6ms ... 460€

= 1885€

Did you consider to take a Sandy Bridge E i7 3930K for the workstation? ( ~ +350€ more for cpu and board but ~50% more power)


Is this server intended for rendering or only as file server?

[feynman]

I stick with the FirePro and 2x8GB RAM to be able to upgrade to 32GB I guess. I'm hoping that the 2600K oc'ed to 4,5GHz will be substantially better as you suggest, but then it should be of course. Micro ATX case should be good because all three boxes fit well into a nearby recess and I like small space envelopes. Such cases won't scare off occasional visitors either...

I looked around for the i7 3930K also, but it seems that the price premium for the proc, mb and PSU almost makes 2/3 of an i7 2600K render box... One box shall be used for 3D surfacing and polygonal modelling and some rendering, the other box shall be just a decapitated render moron :)

That's what I got from reliable component providers for all parts needed:

269,00 Intel Core i7-2600K 4/8 3,4GHz 95W socket 1155 oc <4,5GHz RAM <=1333MHz
118,94 ASUS P8Z68-M PRO uATX DDR3 1066MHz-2133MHz
129,00 ATI FirePro V4800 1GB 2560x1600px 292mm length
152,73 16GB Kingston ValueRAM DDR3 1333MHz regECC DIMM lat CL9 dual kit (looking still for cheaper 2x8 non-reg RAM kit)
119,00 Samsung SpinPoint F4 EcoGreen 2TB 5400rpm (HD204UI)
329,90 Samsung SSD 830 Series 256GB 2.5" MLC SATA600 525MB/s r 320MB/s w
185,90 Samsung SSD 830 Series 128GB 2.5" MLC SATA600 525MB/s r 320MB/s w
61,90 OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W modular cabling PSU
129,90 Lian-Li PC-V354 uATX
23,00 Scythe Kozuti SCKZT-1000 110x103x40
477,89 HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200px IPS 6ms
58,65 Cherry G84-5200LCMDE-2 XS Complete keybd. PS2/USB
109,00 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit incl. SP1

Which makes

1978,91 EUR per modeling and rendering box (excl. shipping of all parts from various vendors)
1050,37 EUR per render only box (excl. shipping of all parts from various vendors)

And then, I'll book an intensive case modding christmas course at my local adult education centre ;

[numerobis]

as i said before: 3930K = ~ +350€ more for cpu and board but ~50% more power. Maybe not for the rendernode, but for the workstation...

rendernode

Lian-Li PC-V354 uATX ... 140€
ASRock Z68 Pro3-M, Z68 Socket 1155 ... 90€ (onboard video)
Intel Core i7-2600K, 4x 3.40GHz, boxed ... 260€
Scythe Big Shuriken 2 ... 30€
Corsair XMS3 DIMM Kit 16GB PC3-12800U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1600) ... 65€ (2x8GB will be ~110-120€, but only DDR3-1333@cl9, but this should be ok )
Samsung SpinPoint F4 320GB 7200rpm ... 65€ ( LOL i bought 2 of them for this price 3 months ago... insane )
Seasonic S12II-520Bronze 520W ATX 2.2 ... 70€
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit incl. SP1 ... 120€

= 840€

once again... you'll not be able to cool a 2600K@4,5GHz with this tiny Scythe Kozuti (http://www.awardfabrik.de/kuhlung-luft/ ... dup-9.html) especially in this small case and at a low noise level.
If you don't want to invest in a water cooler then you need at least something like the Scythe Big Shuriken 2 (http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 425&page=5) or the Scythe Zipang ( http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 248&page=5 ) . A tower cooler will not fit into this case i think.
Maybe the Scythe Zipang 2 (http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... age=5)will fit, this would be much better than the Shuriken, but i don't know...

[feynman]

Cheers! Yes, I need a more substantial cooler that still fits the case, many writeups claim the Kozuti is not suitable. Shame, because it's small and very cheap. Need to have a look at your suggestions. Probably worth thinking about the faster processor for the workstation, too. But the 3930K probably needs an even larger cooler...

[itsallgoode9]

As this thread goes on, I'm not fully understanding what you're trying to do...are you trying to build one main machine and also render nodes? or are you just looking at the best priced machines? or what? spell this out for me, because I recently went through all of this and can give you insight from all my research and my final purchases and why I did what I did.

[feynman]

Well, I need one machine to do the 3D modelling work well and render well - and then I need 1-2 affordable machines to render only.

At the moment, I'm doing this with various 2008 and 2009 Apple MacBook Pro's where the 3D modelling works very well for my needs, but the rendering is excruciatingly slow. Since the current price of iMacs is very good, I first thought to remain in the Apple world - but upon ordering got cold feet and realised that I would get more speed for less money switching to the Windows 7 world with the same i7 processor - and going that way I would then be able to upgrade my machines in the future whereas with iMacs etc. I would remain in a closed shop world just as before...

[feynman]

After looking at more render tests and all these components, their compatibility and size, I will change my order to these parts:

559,00 Intel Core i7-3930K
232,75 ASUS P9X79 PRO
65,00 Noctua NH-D14 2011 (but, there is also the new SE2011 Intel RTS2011LC...)
73,08 Kingston KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX h=30mm
100,90 Corsair HX 650W ATX 2.2
109,00 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit SP1
99,90 Fractal Design Define R3 Arctic White
####.## (1x for workstation)

273,16 Intel Core i7-2600K
163,63 ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
48,30 Thermalright Silver Arrow
73,08 Kingston KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX h=30mm
100,90 Corsair HX 650W ATX 2.2
109,00 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit SP1
99,90 Fractal Design Define R3 Arctic White
###.## (per headless render-node)

117,00 Samsung SpinPoint F4 EcoGreen 2TB
179,00 Samsung SSD 830 Series 128GB
151,09 ATI FirePro V4900 1GB
472,43 HP LP2475w
23,80 TP-LINK TL-WN951N
59,90 Cherry G84-5200 XS Keyboard USB Black
14,90 Microsoft Comfort Mouse 4500 BlueTrack USB
####.## (1x for workstation)

####,## workstation
###,## beheaded rendernodes

Wish me luck - and absence of static electricity :)

[numerobis]

128,90 Kingston KHX1600C9D3K6/24GX h=30mm

Sandy -E needs quad channel... this means 4x4, 4x8, 8x4 or 8x8GB

108,90 Corsair HX 650W ATX 2.2

the corsair will be fine but maybe you should take one with 750W to have enough headroom if you want to use a bigger video card together with an overclocked 3930K.

For the the rendernodes a good 500-550W should be enough


And... Good luck