[Bubbaloo]

I should mention that the Autodesk way of "encouraging" late adopters is to make their products non-upgradeable after a certain time.

Please don't encourage NL to adopt the policies, any policy, of Adesk!!

[fv]

Look at this salesmove in relation to Next Limit understanding of customer satisfaction in general.
Its not good service to your most loyal customers. Good practise would be to give those that upgraded earlier the same credit. What would it really cost ?

I agree that Adesk policies are not what I am looking for either. I think Apple does a good job. I have never really felt silly getting their products early. They usually are sensitive with how customers percieve a purchase.

Francois

[Mihnea Balta]

I certainly don't feel I'm a victim here Mihnea...and once again, comments like "you can't please everyone" or you "feel wronged" cheapen the conversation as its meant to imply this is just sour grapes.

I'm sorry if it came through like that, I didn't mean to imply anything. I was just saying that it's harder to argue a point when somebody is upset about something.

The real lesson from this which doesn't discriminate against anyone is to wait on upgrading -- because then my interests will apparently be acknowledged. It's something I would be happy to oblige with. And as a small business, concerned about money, why should my interests count for less?

But again, that's not a new lesson. You make that decision every time you purchase something. Do I want the new LED TV the week it's out, or should I wait a bit for the price to drop? For some people it makes sense to adopt early, for others it doesn't.

[Rochr]

I should mention that the Autodesk way of "encouraging" late adopters is to make their products non-upgradeable after a certain time.

Maxon just gets better for each day that passes. No wonder i´ve seen so many people switch from Max to C4D.

[RK_art]

I recognize most are going through some form of economic uncertainty and I appreciate NL sensitivity to the matter. However, I am a bit perplexed at the promotional offer going to those who have not yet upgraded as it offers incentives which apparently are not retroactive to those who supported NL when 2.0 was released. In particular, April offers 2x rendernodes with a standard license upgrade. As a loyal NL customer I would expect to be held on at least equal footing as those who held off in upgrading as it otherwise calls into question the rationale of immediately adapting future releases.

jvm

I agree totally.
No good idea to be in a line with the first ones when the next upgrade is released.
I will definetely wait that next time for some months and get the cheaper price and instead, use my Vray so far !
Maxwell is nice, but the V2-upgrade was horribly overpriced and NL punishes with their pricing-politics us loyal customers for beeing the first ones who bought.
I will not make that fault ever again.

A reasonable way would have been to offer a discounted upgrade for those who order it directly when it is announced or shortly after it is released, then going on the normal price after the discount-period for the long-time-users and offering much later the discounts for all who hesitated so far.
That would have been reasonable and would protect the loyal customers from beeing overcharged.

[Bubbaloo]

Is it really such a shock that NL would offer a discount sometime after the release of V2? C'mon people.

I will definetely wait that next time for some months and get the cheaper price and instead, use my Vray so far !

I bought one of the first HDTV's on the market several years ago. In a few months it was about half the price. But I didn't go tell Sony that next time I would not purchase so soon, I will instead listen to the radio!

[ivox3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4J2aU6glt0

[giacob]

Is it really such a shock that NL would offer a discount sometime after the release of V2? C'mon people.

I will definetely wait that next time for some months and get the cheaper price and instead, use my Vray so far !

I bought one of the first HDTV's on the market several years ago. In a few months it was about half the price. But I didn't go tell Sony that next time I would not purchase so soon, I will instead listen to the radio!

how can you compare hardware with software market? is a silly comparision imo ( if not in "malafede")
anyway... NL is a market enterprice and can do what it want ..nl can say... we have already spilled out money from old customer now lets try enticing new customers offering them, few months later, the same software at less price than our old customer ... NL cando that

other wise we are free to criticize and saying that in softwhare market thing usually dont work that way and that we are anhappy with that choise

[numerobis]

I bought one of the first HDTV's on the market several years ago. In a few months it was about half the price. But I didn't go tell Sony that next time I would not purchase so soon, I will instead listen to the radio!

I think you can't compare these two things. It's normal that every new hardware device is high priced with it's introduction and then continously starts going down until the next generation is following. This is not what we see when it comes to downloadable software - maybe because there is no storage needed?!?

there have been discussions concerning the update prices before the release - maybe this would have been the right time to start the survey...

anyway... for me who couldn't upgrade to the normal conditions it's good to have these two possibilities now... i'm counting my euros right now

[sidenimjay]

it is totally expected that Maxwell should go on sale from time to time......

however, it is the approach with which they have taken that has caused the feather ruffling

it has been presented as the reward for not purchasing sooner, rather than hey users we are offering a big discount for purchases now thru then

had the sale not been tied to the fact that people were not buying v2 due to the price, there would not have been so many that felt short changed....

[choo-chee]

well I have to say, I got this offer too. My only comment is that it's just not good enough. We are using Maxwell for a few years now. We bought super-strong over-clocked PC's so we can get decent renders. And after waiting and waiting for a better version that would be faster, what we got (after trying MR 2) is a software that crashes all the time. Unlike 1.x that NEVER crashed, my tests with 2 are getting about 30%-50% crashed of scenes I'm trying to render. Sometimes I find it is something in the geometry not good anymore. Sometimes it's backwards-comp., sometimes it's just crashing the same scene at SL 2, then SL 5, etc.... Since no client will pay me for lost time trying to render his scenes, I don't want this program. And even with that discount. It's just not stable enough (so I have great results every few tests. so what? only 1.7 is stable and I already paid for it..). As much as I love Maxwell, I think that I have no choice but get another renderer (yeah that thing that starts with a "v") for the same price (I get 1 workstation+10 render nodes!) and I know it's working - none of my tests with the demo crashed !

[fv]

I don't crash that much anymore. I do crash now and then but most often when I am in a hurry and do things I otherwise do not. I would say I crash now and then only with specific files were other files never crash. My files are about 10Mb most often but up to 500Mb as well.

I bought the renderapp. that starts with a V... Regretfully I can not return the V since it crashes at any render above a few Mb. More then Maxwell ever did. Actually we stopped using V since it was far less reliable than M. v2 in our case is more stable than v1.7.

But it must be said that photorealistic rendering is far from easy, it requires a lot of patience, research and expensive hardware. And it does get frustrating to get the job done. I think its not even fun unless you're very well paid and given proper time. In a hurry and on a tight deadline its as much fun as getting stuck in a traffic jam after a 5 hours drive home. You know you get home but tired and not exactly when.

Francois

[zdeno]

It is just normal and well know phenomenon.

When you want the newest item just after it leaves manufacture . It costs more. But you have your fun with plaing with new toy that your neighbours do not have.

After some time, this item is going to be cheaper and cheaper and this is absolutely normal, so what is all about this riot ? It was smart to shout in october when we see rendernodes are highly priced. now this is useless and funny.

I wasn,t happy with this all NO FREE RENDERNODE license after V2 relase. I explain my anger on this forum and DIDN,T upgrade because prices were to high in my opinion. BUT I KNEW there will be a day when it will be cheaper, and this day arrived

So how this is possible someone didn,t predict that ?

be a man, - You have your joy now it is our(not upgraded) time for smile

good move NL Team ! thx for oportunity to jump on V2

[Bubbaloo]

well I have to say, I got this offer too. My only comment is that it's just not good enough. We are using Maxwell for a few years now. We bought super-strong over-clocked PC's so we can get decent renders. And after waiting and waiting for a better version that would be faster, what we got (after trying MR 2) is a software that crashes all the time. Unlike 1.x that NEVER crashed, my tests with 2 are getting about 30%-50% crashed of scenes I'm trying to render. Sometimes I find it is something in the geometry not good anymore. Sometimes it's backwards-comp., sometimes it's just crashing the same scene at SL 2, then SL 5, etc.... Since no client will pay me for lost time trying to render his scenes, I don't want this program. And even with that discount. It's just not stable enough (so I have great results every few tests. so what? only 1.7 is stable and I already paid for it..)

Have you tried contacting NL support to try to figure out what is causing the crashes? They are very helpful and smart people. Obviously, the software does not crash for everyone. I don't think V2 has ever crashed for me except when testing some beta versions.

As much as I love Maxwell, I think that I have no choice but get another renderer (yeah that thing that starts with a "v") for the same price (I get 1 workstation+10 render nodes!) and I know it's working - none of my tests with the demo crashed !

It's always a good idea to learn other software. Expand your horizons. But what exactly is being accomplished by posting this on a Maxwell forum?

[choo-chee]

I sent scenes and tried to be specific yet problem exists (I re-test every time a new patch or plugin is released...)...
About the "v" stuff, I wanted to be very clear about my opinion about ver. 2 and customer care...