[rober]

hi guys,
my problem is: I need to obtain the maximum render speed with heavy files of jewellry (all IOR materials)and
especially with hundreds of diamonds ( do you remember an old discussion over blu color when diamonds intersect metal?Hello Caryjames,Ricardo,Ivox3.....What' news in Maxwell 2 and jewelry?).
Is corrected the idea " If my hundreads of diamonds are a copy of one diamond/block for render calculation they will be like one"
I distribute a diamont/block in many positions with a specific automatic comand of Rhinojewell.
In Maxwell plugin -Output/Export I have "Instances" cheked ( sorry ...What is an instance? It is a Maxwell block?)
The file is more light (24 MB instead 34 MB ) , but I haven't improvements of speed in my tests.
Only trasforming all diamonds in minimum meshes I improve meaninfully the speed

-Another questions :
all in my scene is mesh I think thath Maxwell demand this (...?) but a friend of mine that advise me to change at Vray, tell me that Maxwell no interpreting very well
this meshes that You will can see in the render like artifacts, this isn't a problem with V-Ray no exist because it is indiferent to have meshes or no
in the scene, He render Nurbs directly also when he has hundreads of stones, with the tipical VRay speed, also is indiferent
if there are many diamonds intersecting with metal ( there isn't blu color )

...Please tell me something !!! I won't to pass to Vray:)!!!
rober

[JDHill]

Hi Rober,

On the first question, the goal of using instances is to reduce memory consumption, not to increase render speed. As you have found, there is some specific performance cost associated with the use of instances.

On the second issue, Maxwell requires meshes, so that is what the plugin must give it. When you render a Mesh object, the plugin just copies the mesh into the MXS file; when you use a NURBS object, the plugin gets its render mesh from Rhino and writes that into the MXS file. The reason to avoid intersecting meshes with dielectrics is that Maxwell uses the meshes to perform physically-based calculations; if your gem's mesh is violated by the mesh of your setting, it will affect this calculation. The reason to avoid co-planar mesh faces is more technical and has to do with the way computers represent decimal numbers.

Let me know if this helps to answer your questions.

Cheers,

JD

[rober]

Thankyou HDHill,
But...my friend have the reason and Vray beyond more quickly is more simply to set in heavy jewelry files?
It's imposible to improve the speed performance?
If I want 100 frames for a video I think I need every jpg of 800x600 13-14 SL (???),... Time more or less=1h,
tot 4 days for 100 frames?
"Only " the quality is best in Maxwell?
rober

[JDHill]

I really can't comment on vray, since I don't use it. There are lots of ways to make scenes render faster or slower - it all depends on the scene. In Maxwell it will not matter much how heavy the scene is, geometry-wise; it is really more about how much math the engine has to do. So, if you have alot of gems which all use complex IOR and/or dispersion, then that is going to have some performance cost. Your scene lighting will also make a difference; are you using lots of physical emitters or are you using an image-based environment? If using physical emitters, have you tried simplifiying their geometry?

There are lots of different factors like these which will affect performance.

[rober]

I have a "dazzler" mxi emitter that someone say me but I think is a little poor and I add an hdri environments (without background) to improve te set. When I changed the Ior diamond with glass it don't like me very well ...diamonds very gray, not white I must see the old discussion around glass with dispersion and without, and how many dispersion is optimal, I don't remember

[Blitzor]

I have recently switched from maxwell to vray to do most of my jewelry renders. I just couldn't fathom doing a 1500x1500 image of diamond jewelry in maxwell (over 1000 items). It takes me 45 minutes-1 hour to do a remotely clean 300x300 image in maxwell. I can render 1500x1500 in vray in less than 30 minutes which is much more feasible (even metalray is about the same speed). Don't even touch Maxwell for jewelry animations. Maxwell is fine for doing the odd artistic "photo" looking image, but its not practical for thousands of catalog images or animations.

[rober]

Thankyou HDHill and Blitzor,
now everything is clear.
rober

[caryjames]

Hey rober- I have not upgraded to V2 yet.... no time - not for lack of interest- I plan on jumping in the New Year.

In rendering you have to model differently right from the start if you want to have accurate and beautiful renderings. So if you model your diamonds not intersecting their drill holes BEFORE you array and position them then I don't know what the issue is... if you are trying to render physically accurate photographs AFTER you have created 3D models with intersecting geometry then you are going to have an issue. Lighting with real world setups is also important to have diamonds refract light correctly. In Maxwell you can create unrealistic situations with lighting that can make diamonds look TOO dispersive.. lighting that you likely would not encounter in the real world.

I have used instances/blocks and have found that they do speed up my render getting out of Rhino and into Maxwell and have helped with render times... I have not measured time benefits so this is only an anecdotal response.

Read on the forum about speeding up render times.. no intersecting emitters... no intersecting instances etc. No easy way to learn except taking the time... but I doubt Vray is easy either. Mihai has a great course so check that out... he has an entire class 3hrs? specifically about speeding up render times.

I also don't use Vray, the jewellery renders that I have seen always have that little bit that is hard to define but always leads me to figure that they are computer generated... not actual photos.

Just my 0.02 cents hope that helps
Cary

[rober]

hello Caryjames
I'm happy to see you,
I think, more or less, I do well what you say but ...the times not improve!
Where is this Mihai's course?
Thankyou for your experience about Vray
rober

[rober]

If I lighting only with HDRI environment (without mxi emitter-dazzler) I have a very important improvement 10 SL in 14 min vs 28
-HALF TIME !!!
This with accetable quality ... I 'm not sure the same thing with material glass instead diamond IOR in 400 diamonds?!?
This confirm me the Maxwell 2.0 's speed improvements in lighting with only HDRI environment but the other improvements there aren't important
I have counted the times in my tests with alls parameters for the best speed:
-all is mesh (ok)
-nothing intersecting nothing (no Blue?)
-HDRY environment only (ok)

No very influential in my tests:
-blocks/instances
-less of 224,224,224, in white reflectances
-no lambertians
-no nd>3 in no transparent materials
-bump around 10
-lighting with triangular panels
rober

[GTJC460]

Do a boolean difference command in rhino so that the setting gets cut away from the diamond.

Also look at your hdri. It will not only light the scene, but can tint objects color as well. For jewelry find a neutral color hdri (I use one that's a gradation of black and white).

[rober]

Hi GT.....,

I do boolean difference for ..."nothing intersect nothing"
I use a desaturate HDMI...

A question ...
I ever perzonalize every object in the scene to optimize at the minimum of meshes for every object.

I read now that Maxwell want "triangular" meshes ( if not ...Maxwell calculate one more time the meshes) but I think I produce with Rhino quad and triangular meshes.That is true?
In this case there is a sistem to produce only triangular meshes with Rhino? This should improve the render times?
rober

[JDHill]

Don't worry about quad/tri meshes - the plugin automatically exports all meshes as triangle-meshes, since Maxwell only works with triangles. The only time it really matters is when using displacement - long/skinny triangles don't work well for displacement.

[ivox3]

Thankyou HDHill,
But...my friend have the reason and Vray beyond more quickly is more simply to set in heavy jewelry files?
It's imposible to improve the speed performance?
If I want 100 frames for a video I think I need every jpg of 800x600 13-14 SL (???),... Time more or less=1h,
tot 4 days for 100 frames?
"Only " the quality is best in Maxwell?
rober

I also haven't upgraded yet,.. so your the pioneer here.

As far as speed goes, there are some obvious things you don't want to do to hinder speed(of which your already aware), but very little you can do to increase your speed, that being in a major way. V2 may indeed be faster with gems, dunno. At the end of the day though, serious speed changes are just gonna be directly related to hardware.

100 frames only ? On a full turntable animation, it would be a blur and on a half turn ani, ... a little less blurry. I suppose you could do 15fps, but they just look so bad... ?? Also, 800 x 600 is pretty big ... are these for clients or web ?
If it were me and I didn't have the horsepower, I'd do a 400 x 400 renders, batch file upsize in PS for each file to 800 x 800(or better) ---- it's not as nice, but you have to do what you have to do.

I am of no help -- sorry.

[rober]

I can stop my RH5-MW2-speed-jewellry-tests with yours last information !
I cannot compare with Vray , ...the quality need time
Ivox3 I'm happy to see you! Why haven't you upgraded yet