[Bubbaloo]

So much money for almost nothing new.

[Bubbaloo]

Here's a Maxwell V2 render I did today testing thinsss grass blades:


Only levels adjustment and resizing in PS.

[big K]

great bubbaloo !

i would be interested in the pure maxwell render as i like the sky and i would like to see what comes right out of maxwell.

(the thin sss is maybe a bit to extreme )

[Bubbaloo]

Thanks! Here it is straight from Maxwell (little too dark):

[Eric Lagman]

RK art. Can you post your sss material you are using. I am wondering if there is not something that can be optimized in your material. From the tests I did with SSS I found it to be much better compared to 1.7. Also what was your original resolution out of curiosity? If you can post the scene file that would be nice so that we can take a look and make suggestions.

[3dtrialpractice]

WOW Bubbaloo what an AMAZING image..
you can call it fire grass or something to that effect..cus WOW what an eye opener that grass is on fire!!!
I dont think the sss is too much cuz thats why to render to do an image that is hyper real!
wondeful V2 post!

Question.. is the grass geometry or thin planes clipmaped? using a randomiser? if its clipmaped then that Really shows some V2 power!

[rusteberg]

DAMN BUBBA! that's HOT! here's my latest test from today. 20 minute render from an old 1.0 scene. (slightly desaturated the cyan channel in post)



here is original straight from maxwell using hdri from maxwell resource area... still trying to get used to new colors...

[RK_art]

Hi Eric,

I used for the buddha only 2 x the simple green SSS-Jade presets, where the second layer is set to a red absorption color and the layer is blended to the first one via a black&white mask. Nothing special.
The scene contains only the buddha and a ground-plane, lighting is Phy-Sky with sun.
Very simple.

[Bubbaloo]

Question.. is the grass geometry or thin planes clipmaped? using a randomiser? if its clipmaped then that Really shows some V2 power!

It is not opacity mapped. It is just a piece of thin geometry scattered around a surface using Max's particle flow.

Thanks 3dtrial and rusteberg

[caryjames]

Bubbaloo that is BEAUTIFUL!

[bjorn.syse]

Here is a scene with 5 different SSS volumes enclosed in a PET-plastic material with an air cavity on top. I'v rendered this for 16 hours on my Macbook pro (2.5 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo). The size is only 400x300. It's at SL 19.12.



I'm amazed on how slow that is, and can only take your word for it if you say it can't be slower than 1.7. Have not tested it under the same conditions there,.

However, the new SSS material system is very useful compared to the last one. Sure, the presets are gone, but hey - in 1.7 the presets were crucial. In my opinion, there was not much to be done except using the presets - that's how counter-intuitive the parameters were. In 2.0, all I had to do was to read the manual on the subject, do a few tests and after 30 minutes I knew exactly what to change to achieve a certain result.

Think I'm gonna have to substitute all my SSS materials for frosted glass to get them to ever clear.

[RK_art]

Thanks for confirming my SSS-test-results, Bjorn.
So it's clear that it's not a problem of the user-setups, but a serious lack of V2's render-engine that NL should speed up urgently to the same level they did with opaque or simple translucent materials.

[tom]

However, the new SSS material system is very useful compared to the last one. Sure, the presets are gone, but hey - in 1.7 the presets were crucial. In my opinion, there was not much to be done except using the presets - that's how counter-intuitive the parameters were. In 2.0, all I had to do was to read the manual on the subject, do a few tests and after 30 minutes I knew exactly what to change to achieve a certain result.

That's great you hearing the new wizard is as easy as we planned it to be.

Think I'm gonna have to substitute all my SSS materials for frosted glass to get them to ever clear.

It's a fact real physically correct SSS is always many times slower comparing to anything else. Besides, Maxwell SSS is fully volumetric. This means, it's not faking the translucent look only on the surface like others do and it's very easy to prove that. Because, Maxwell SSS is able to simulate transparency in the thin parts and not just faking a waxy look. But, of course we hear you about the speed and we're working hard to improve and bring it to another level.

If today, it's still slower than you expected, it's because we will never add bias to Maxwell because we know it must calculate it correctly first, the speed comes next. Until then, I'd suggest you to play a bit more friendly with SSS. Otherwise, it's always very easy to make the engine suffer about anything. I could place a displacement with gazillion precision or put all emitters behind glasses and so on... It's always partially under user's control to reach the goal. In this perspective, I suggest the following for SSS users:

- Avoid non-uniform illumination as much as possible such as, directional lights (small and/or far emitters).
- Avoid low attenuation and/or high scattering in relative to object's size.
- Avoid trapping SSS object behind other dielectrics such as those tiny bottles in your example. This means SSS is trying to scatter the caustics and it receives no direct lighting. It's a very hard condition and it will take time and it will be more than you expect. Even if you have to, use Thomas's liquid+glass model as your modeling strategy.
- The best lighting strategy would be a uniform HDR and/or large emitters. It will always clear up lots of times faster than any other condition. Meanwhile, we're already working on improving the other conditions and to make it more efficient at 100% same quality and physical correctness.

Here are some examples, I've done during the testing phase:

[bjorn.syse]

That's great you hearing the new wizard is as easy as we planned it to be.

Actually, I wasn't even talking about the wizard, which seems even simpler. I was talking about the parameters in MXED under the 'Subsurface properties'. They're straightforward enough without leaving out too much control. Good job!

we will never add bias to Maxwell because we know it must calculate it correctly first, the speed comes next.

This sounds promising, and I respect you for that approach. As for your suggestions, thanks, these tips are very valuable.

- Avoid non-uniform illumination as much as possible such as, directional lights (small and/or far emitters).
- The best lighting strategy would be a uniform HDR and/or large emitters. It will always clear up lots of times faster than any other condition. Meanwhile, we're already working on improving the other conditions and to make it more efficient at 100% same quality and physical correctness.

This particular scene is lit by Hyltoms LDR with white light from Top, Left and Back. I also added a quite large rectangular emitter to the right of the bottles.

- Avoid low attenuation and/or high scattering in relative to object's size.

Could you elaborate on this, I'm not sure I understand.,.

- Avoid trapping SSS object behind other dielectrics such as those tiny bottles in your example. This means SSS is trying to scatter the caustics and it receives no direct lighting. It's a very hard condition and it will take time and it will be more than you expect. Even if you have to, use Thomas's liquid+glass model as your modeling strategy.

Ah, so this means any SSS liquid inside glass would take a lot longer to render, because all the light it deals with is caustic light, am I right?
I did use Thomas' liquid model with the SSS volume being enclosed in a plastic solid.

Those tests are AMAZING! Could you say anything about rendertimes? I bet you're not using a Macbook pro though....

[Maximus3D]

Those glasses are very nice, thicker at the bottom and thinner at the top. Just like the real thing would look like.
The jade also looks alot sexier now, especially the very green one. I like that!

Actually the juiceglass i rendered earlier here which had a sss behind a thick glass did render well and clear noise pretty fast considering how difficult it would have been to render with 1.7.1 i think that sss in 2.0 is relatively fast if comparing to the old sss.

/ Max