[RonB]

Updated for free...at what $10,000.00 for the pro version?...I would hope they would update it for free.

All our renders on our website have been done using only 1,500 pixel wide HDRs. Yet still look good.

Mark, math wise for illumination purposes a rendering engine doesn't need an HDRI image any larger than a blurred 360 X 180 pixel image...any bigger and it is a waste of memory and processing power. For reflections an HDRI at 1500 pixels will do fine. For backgrounds as large a JPG as the finished image needs to be for print etc.

You have actually had clients ask for the capability to create a 50,000 pixel wide image of studio lighting? I am wondering for what reason? I understand an indoor or outdoor scene but a studio lighting scene? I am just wondering.

I wish all the luck in your venture. But $425 for your software is still way too high. I just downloaded 24 studio lighting HDRI images at 10,000 X 5,000 pixels, that is 600 MB each for nothing. These high quality images were created and given to the community. With these...and there are many, many others out there, anyone can create with very little effort their own unlimited HDR's forever.

Which brings me to this simple question for all the forum members.
Just how many different HDRI studio lighting images have you ever needed for your work? I am emphasizing studio lighting because that's what we are talking about here. Really how many different images does one really need?

As a matter of fact I will put together a layered Photoshop file with a set of different light shapes and backgrounds that anyone could use to create all the studio lighting HDRI images they want simply by moving the shapes around on different layers...and adjusting them to any size or light intensity. If anyone is interested let me know and I will add it to the Goodies Forum.

Cheers, Ron

[NicoR44]

Although I think HDR Light Studio looks very interesting(I just might be buying a copy in the near future ) I'm very very interested in such a file Ron

[yanada]

Does This Make Seance?

[bbuxton]

Updated for free...at what $10,000.00 for the pro version?...I would hope they would update it for free.

All our renders on our website have been done using only 1,500 pixel wide HDRs. Yet still look good.

Mark, math wise for illumination purposes a rendering engine doesn't need an HDRI image any larger than a blurred 360 X 180 pixel image...any bigger and it is a waste of memory and processing power. For reflections an HDRI at 1500 pixels will do fine. For backgrounds as large a JPG as the finished image needs to be for print etc.

You have actually had clients ask for the capability to create a 50,000 pixel wide image of studio lighting? I am wondering for what reason? I understand an indoor or outdoor scene but a studio lighting scene? I am just wondering.

I wish all the luck in your venture. But $425 for your software is still way too high. I just downloaded 24 studio lighting HDRI images at 10,000 X 5,000 pixels, that is 600 MB each for nothing. These high quality images were created and given to the community. With these...and there are many, many others out there, anyone can create with very little effort their own unlimited HDR's forever.

Which brings me to this simple question for all the forum members.
Just how many different HDRI studio lighting images have you ever needed for your work? I am emphasizing studio lighting because that's what we are talking about here. Really how many different images does one really need?

As a matter of fact I will put together a layered Photoshop file with a set of different light shapes and backgrounds that anyone could use to create all the studio lighting HDRI images they want simply by moving the shapes around on different layers...and adjusting them to any size or light intensity. If anyone is interested let me know and I will add it to the Goodies Forum.

Cheers, Ron

Also for those interested

http://www.paralumino.com/x_cart/home.php?cat=274
These are excellent for studio lighting and cover just about all that would be needed for this type of rendering.

Dig around the site a bit and you may find some of my hdrs (not studio shots mind but some nice exteriors shot in Northern Catalunya).

BB

A layered hdr psd file would be fantastic. Perhaps a section on the MXM gallery would be a good place for this sort of thing. I'd be happy to donate some of my hdrs for that.

BB

[RonB]

Very good bbuxton! I really like the last of the three sets, the studio lights are about all one would need.

I am putting the Photshop file together now.

Cheers,
Ron


Also all interested should check out Christian Bloch's site and all the free tools he offers for HDRI imaging, especially sIBL. It's a free program that generates HDRI image sets from panos consisting of illumination, reflection and background, puts them in a storage file and automatically loads a rendering scene setup in your 3D program. It has various plugins for different programs. The generated HDR images can be used in Maxwell...which I do all the time. It's all free....Blochi's programs would be priced in the thousands if other people had created them...thank goodness they didn't.

Check out his site and forums ...it's for the improvement and knowledge of the 3D community that he does this. Being more concerned with raising the level of the art than running a simple program into the ground by charging as much as he possibly can for it.

http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/index.html

[Seggy]

Thanks for the input everyone. I suppose I have found this place much more hostile than I imagined. Like the stranger entering a bar full of buddies and you know your just never gonna fit in.

All I'm getting out of this thread is that the price is too high. I've have tried my best to explain where we come from in our thinking. Not to justify but to share my perspective.

We never saw it as a tool for the wider 3D community. We just didn't. I'd personally be moving the lighting around in my 3d software and wouldn't see much benefit in using HDRs if I didn't need to. I use maya and do studio shot type stuff and would be pretty frustrated lighting with HDRs for this. HDRs makes sense for locations, but not studio stuff. HDR Light Studio only seems essential for my Hypershot work. But that's just me.

I am not trying to persuade you to buy it.

I guess this post started with an email sent to me by Ron earleir this week lambasting me and swearing at me - and I'm not used to this. I then was unhappy to find out my personal email reply sent to Ron was posted on this forum, with a little editing. I felt it was all pretty ungentlemanly.

So I have tried to play the pipes of peace here, but the war cabinet are assmebling their troops and I have to say gentlemen, it's time for me to retire from our discussion. I have no friends here, it's not my bar! I'll leave the last words to you all, I'm heading on down the road.

[Maximus3D]

Hmm, no. Leaving would be the wrong thing to do Seggy. I know they were harsh towards you and i kinda agree about the high price. But if you aim for a different type of customers than the average 3d artist and freelancer found on this forum then you should probably keep the prices you have set and sell your product to the customers whom you been aiming for in the first place.

Personally i would like to use your software for my scenes, it looks very useful and it provides a quick and easy way to generate studio hdr's with. Unfortunately i'm unemployed so buying it is impossible.

/ Max

[yanada]

Dont give up mate you have a nice product (just a bit expensive) Also you sound like a real Gentleman.

[ivox3]

Come on Seggy, ..come back to the bar for another drink -- I'm buying.

I think some of the displeasure being expressed is simply because the pricing structure you guys have devised is so rigid that a large group of interested users just can't find a tier that suits him/her.



You see, ... the first option definitely offends a certain users. 3 lights ? Come on man .. I want all the legos to play with !

Option 2: Okay, .. that's more like it, but let me pay a price that still makes me feel like its an additional tool tool for my arsenal, ..and not another primary app.

Option 3 is for crazy people .... God bless 'em.

We like the app Seggy, ...just give us a ledge errrr tier to stand on brother !

[RonB]

Well, since I guess I am the main bully here I will explain a bit. Here is where I swore at Mark in my email:

"I felt compelled to write. Please excuse my language here but...ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS?" And I did say in the post "Some parts of the reply from HDRlightstudio to my email: " The parts posted were not edited just cut and pasted. I admit asking them if they were fucking nuts was not a very courteous thing to do. I now apologize for that and I will write to Mark directly if he does not respond here.

But then on my part here I think along with the criticism I did say some complimentary things too:
"I apologize if this seems a bit harsh but those are my thoughts."
"I like what your program does, it serves a good function and I would buy it..."
"The long and short of it is we disagree on the price and that's about it."
"Just to be clear here. I don't think you guys are "bad" people, you are probably, as you said, good people there. "
"Thanks for joining in, listening and saying what you have."
"I wish all the luck in your venture."

None of those statements was said with any sarcasm, I meant what I said.
The "and that's about it." in the third statement meant just that, we agree on everything else just not the price.

I still think the price is way too high. But I was looking forward to carrying on the discussion and maybe getting into some of the nuts and bolts of HDR imaging. Maybe we could all learn something. So, yeah Mark, if you are reading this please don't leave, join in again it's not really a Biker Bar, you do have friends here, come on back, sit down and talk some more.

Ron

[caryjames]

I have been following this thread and I think that ivox and Bubaloo are correct.... the passion displayed is a direct result of this being a VERY useful tool but unfortunately TOO expensive when compared to other 3D apps. If RonB didn't think it was a great tool why would he be so passionate about the pricing structure and take the time to personally email the company? .

I could definitely see the benefit of this program and would gladly pay for it's use but I also agree that the price is toooo high. I could easily justify $250-300 but beyond that.... for my product shots I will keep using .mxi images of softboxes added to my emitters.

Just my 0.02 cents of course

[yanada]

I have been following this thread and I think that ivox and Bubaloo are correct.... the passion displayed is a direct result of this being a VERY useful tool but unfortunately TOO expensive when compared to other 3D apps. If RonB didn't think it was a great tool why would he be so passionate about the pricing structure and take the time to personally email the company? .

I could definitely see the benefit of this program and would gladly pay for it's use but I also agree that the price is toooo high. I could easily justify $250-300 but beyond that.... for my product shots I will keep using .mxi images of softboxes added to my emitters.

Just my 0.02 cents of course

Indeed You Can You Read My Mind

[Micha]

If I would buy studio HDRI, than I would like to get real world shots like this one:



I found this at my hard disk and the note, that it is from hdrimaps.com, but at the web page I can't found it, only quite ugly HDRIs.

All this studio HDRIs with a square with gradient can be done, if a hidden light source is placed in front of a diffuse plane (I use Vray, but should be possible with most renderer). So, I can easy adjust placement and intensity of each light without extra cost.

At the example above I like the real world details. Doe's somebody know, where to get this image as high res version?

[RonB]

Micha - I do not know where you can get this image at high res. But I am making an HDRI image component kit, actually 3 of them, to put on the Goodies forum. With them you will be able to make images very similar to this one at 6000 X 3000 dpi. In the kits there are components very similar to the reflector, darker back shape and small shadowed planes that you can move around, resize and adjust the light intensity of as you wish.

I am finishing a commercial job right now and when that is done I will wrap up the kits. They will be posted in a couple days.

Ron

[numerobis]

Micha - I do not know where you can get this image at high res. But I am making an HDRI image component kit, actually 3 of them, to put on the Goodies forum. With them you will be able to make images very similar to this one at 6000 X 3000 dpi. In the kits there are components very similar to the reflector, darker back shape and small shadowed planes that you can move around, resize and adjust the light intensity of as you wish.

I am finishing a commercial job right now and when that is done I will wrap up the kits. They will be posted in a couple days.

Ron

wow! great idea! very cool. thank you!