[-Adrian]

WhichOne?

[leoA4D]

This 1 is for that 1, 2.

[Hervé]

That was my fear...

[zampano]

Here comes Super Obama to save the day...

Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's THATONE!

He is gonna be my rainbow. I've read his last book and no doubt...he's giving me lotsa hopes

[JDHill]

Neither one for me, thanks.

There are only two ways to live: by peace, or by violence. Peaceful people advocate the use of force only as a means to self-defense, not for the purpose of accomplishing any other goal. Violent ones are the exact opposite, generally wishing to restrict the right to self-defense, while purporting to help society through the very threat and use of force. They do not easily remember the basic fact that GOVERNMENT IS FORCE. No matter how wonderful the stated end-result, the platforms and goals of the major parties represent ambitions far outside of their rightful purpose, and which are impossible to implement without the threat, and eventual use, of unprovoked violence against the citizenry in general. I will not support them in any way whatsoever.

To all of these politicians, and those who support them, I say: you can shut off your brain - you can and think and say that you're peaceful, and that you only want to help people (however you might've defined that), but if at the end of the day, you can only offer help to one by threatening violence to another, you are only fooling yourself; in fact, it is not YOUR help that you are offering. You are no benefactor - you are a tyrant. If you willingly support and participate in a system which is tyrannical in nature, you are a tyrant; you are a willing accomplice. You are not what you might like to think you are.

These people we're electing are not what we (and probably they) might like to think they are.

[Bubbaloo]

It's the best system to date. What is the alternative? Anarchy?
People need someone in charge to tell them what to do. It's naive to think that is not true.
As a small example, take away all the traffic laws. Sure some people will still drive safely because they are self-disciplined and safety conscious. But the majority would drive as fast as they can, never yielding.

Government is a necessary evil. We have to do the best we can with what we got.

[JDHill]

It was once the best system. And yes, we do need to do the best with what we've got, which is why I say what I believe.

Government is necessary, but it need not be evil. The alternative to our arbitrary system of pre-emptive justice is the law of logic, not anarchy! What is the law of logic? When you violate another, you have just written the very law which condemns you - if society applies the same treatment to you as punishment, it is not an arbitrary law which is applied...it is the law you have claimed to be valid by your very actions, and it is the proper function of government to apply it.

As to your example, I do not think that bears reality. People do not drive sanely because the law tells them to do so - they do it in the knowledge that it is the only way to survive on the roads. As a matter of fact, I do not approve of the pre-emptive enforcement of traffic laws. I have no problem with the law's existence, but believe they only produce a sense of safety - not actual safety.

As to 'people' needing someone to tell them what to do - which 'people' are you talking about? Do you include yourself in this group? ...better only speak for yourself about that - if you want someone to tell you what to do, there are plenty of candidates out there.

[glebe digital]

You are free to do what we tell you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqs9ap3iV-4

[Bubbaloo]

society applies the same treatment to you as punishment

The bleeding hearts in this disconnected country would never stand for that!

which 'people' are you talking about?

The sheep, of course. The little sheep that the government must protect from themselves... I am not a part of the governing body, so I must be in the other group. There's only 2 groups, right?

People have always looked for someone in authority to tell them what to do. Why do you think God was invented? People know their limitations. Buddhism. The Buddhist believes that one individual (all individuals) have the ability to change the world. This, of course, is accomplished by showing loving-kindness and respect to all living beings. What would this world be like if all people lived this way? Human nature just seems to always fuck things up...

[JDHill]

People have always looked for someone in authority to tell them what to do.

Some people, sure. And so they should...but voluntarily.

That is the difference - there is nothing wrong with having government, or having it provide all kinds of services. It only becomes wrong when one group transforms the government's legitimate threat of force into an illegitimate one by bringing it to bear against another group who has done them no demonstrable harm. This is why I indict more than just politicians - for example, I drive by some houses in my neighborhood which have signs out now - 'Vote YES! It's for the kids!'. But this is not an accurate statement (rather they should say, 'it's for my kids') and hidden just below the surface is the barrel of a gun. These people don't see it though, because to think of the relationship between them, their neighbors, their government, and their kids' school funding in those terms is just too 'ugly' of a thing for their minds to deal with - most people like this can't or won't be honest and admit, even to themselves, the true nature of what it is they are supporting.

And so, they are not sheep, they are just willfully-blind about the fact that they ask government to do things to their own neighbors that they could never bring themselves to do personally.

[-Adrian]

I always found it odd that a lack of economic growth is considered unhealthy. Isn't that a major flaw in the system right there, that it has to grow forever in a world of limited resources? People are so in love with their virtual numbers.

(Not that i have any idea how to run a country)

[ivox3]

It's the best system to date. What is the alternative? Anarchy?

Q1. You are asleep. When is the last time you read the Constitution? Don't speak til you have and then DL the Pat.Act 1 & 2 and then return. You'll be awake.

....and if your really in the mood for an awakeining. Have a go with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ


Even if one of these things allegations is true ---- it's not good.


Q2. The orginal version.
Q3. A question like that reinforces that, .... you are asleep.

Forgive me Brian if it all sounds harsh, ..it's not meant to be, ... but you asked for it. Eventually, .. every American will come to the same harsh realizations.

People need someone in charge to tell them what to do. It's naive to think that is not true.

The question here and answer here is ..... Yes. But the caveat is this: For what is their intent to lead ? Altruistic ? or Gain? and whether the their original intent was for genuine purposes, .. does the system itself work against that to eventually break it down or make it insignificant ?

Government is a necessary evil. We have to do the best we can with what we got.

The phrase, "Government is a necessary evil." ...is a mantra and a damaging one at that. It consistantly disempowers the notion for change or betterment.
We will drive where we are steering or simply, we become what we concentrate upon.

Would anyone like to disagree ? Step right on up, ....the milk crate is free .........

_________________

[iker]

...we have to take the pill
Blue or Red?

[leoA4D]

(Not that i have any idea how to run a country)

That goes for me too.

Arguably, the primary purpose of government is to protect the people. Whether to prevent the entry into the country of foods with poisons and toys that are dangerous or those who would want to do us harm, be they domestic or foreign, regardless of intentions, means or methods. Protecting the people from the government itself is the government's responsibility.

Here in the U.S., government has been demonized and agencies intended to protect us have been rendered useless by deep budget and personnel cuts. Neutralizing the people's government has taken place under the marketing title of "Small Government" whose real purpose is to allow business to do anything they want - unfettered. Operating from above the government, Wall St., the banking industry and the insurance industry, using lobbyists and lots of dollars, diligently plied the politicians for years to get them to dilute or remove laws that impeded business's priorities. This is why the world is struggling with the crash of 2008. Early this year, the personal bankruptcy laws were tightened by Congress at the request of the banking industry as both parties knew the crash and a recession were approaching. During the debate the other night, one candidate promised to use a hatchet on the federal budget thus guaranteeing a broken government will be made worse.

In many ways, more than the crash of credit and equity markets over the last two weeks, there have been clear indicators of a troubled nation. If I had had a chance at one of the debates, I would have asked both candidates to respond to the U.S.'s ranking on the following lists:

"Child Well-Being in Rich Countries 2007": 19th out of 20.
"Rankings - Literacy-total population": tied with 18 other countries for 27th place.
"Freedom of the Press 2008": tied with three other countries for 9th but actually, there are twenty countries ranked 1st through 8th place.
"Infant Mortality Rate": 36th
"Greenest Countries - Most Livable Places 2008": 23rd
"Gun Ownership": 1st.
"WHO's ranking of the world's health systems": 37th. Ironically, one of the candidates for President tells his follower that the U.S. does not want health care like what the citizens of Canada (30), UK (18), France (1), and Italy (2) enjoy because it is socialism.
"Global Peace Index 2007": 96th
"National Privacy Ranking 2006": 31st of 37
"Competitiveness": 1st
"Electricity - consumption (kWh) 2008": 1st (U.S. consumes approx. 20% of world energy)
"Imports 2008": 1st
"Oil Consumption 2008": 1st (25% of world consumption)
"Life Expectancy at Birth - total (years) 2008": 41st
"U.S. Teens Trail Peers Around World on Math-Science Test": Science, 17th and Math, 24th.
University of Michigan, "Study of worldwide rates of religiosity, church attendance": http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?Re ... chr121097a.
"America’s Image in the World: Findings from the Pew Global Attitudes Project": http://pewglobal.org/commentary/display.php[/size][/size]?[/size]Analysi[/size]sID=1019
[/size]

[ivox3]

Let me add ....

For anyone who's decided to fully take their head from the sand and take an honest look at what's occurring, ... I'd say, ..it's pretty typical to meet all this with fear, at least that's how it hit me. Get over it. That's precisely why we're in this shit to begin with , ......because people who had the wherewithall to bring things to light either tried and were silenced or flat out did nothing out of fear.

It's a house of cards and knowledge is the gale force wind that'll bring it down. Who's afraid ? Those with something to hide or those that don't ?

But burying our heads and turning on the TV to find relief through escapism is a form of complicity. I think JD covered that part pretty well.......

Iker: ..... http://www.arrod.co.uk/essays/matrix.php ...

ps. Take the red pill ..... if you remember, ..the people who were clueless and took no pill were still shot at by the good guys and bad as if they were inconsequential due to their ignorance. I believe we call them sheeple.

Just something to think about it ...