[mverta]

Well, I'm not trying to crap on anyone's country pride. Right or wrong, running around waving a flag claiming your "team" is the best is the only human thing to do; whether you're talking about your country, your football team, your religion. It's just what we do, so have at it. It's just that here in the US, self-hate has become sort of the new national past-time, and I like to stand against that with a little pride sometimes. Especially because 99% of the self-hate comes from a place of ignorance, not from a place of enlightenment. If it was really a cesspool here, then I'd be all for getting real about it. But it's not. It rocks.


_Mike

[Hervé]

I have to say... if America was not here to help us during WW2, go figure where we'd be now... I mean lots of American people died for us... so I have to say thank you.. Thank you forever !

... and as a free country, it is good to have expatriates... French People love American people... with two exceptions though...

- The biiiiiiiip, (I have no compassion for them (btw, not the slightly biiiiiip.. KWIM..?-)
- The biiiiiiip.

Besides these two categories.. all welcome !!

[jeffg]

- The biiiiiiiip, (I have no compassion for them (btw, not the slightly biiiiiip.. KWIM..?-)
- The biiiiiiip.

Gotta be the Lightwave users and the Cinema4D users.

[Hervé]

go figure....

[Fernando Tella]

95% of the Americans who complain about America know nothing about their own country - I mean nothing; not geography, not history, not political/sociological matters; most of them can't find their own state on a map

I think education has been the worst problem you've got in USA from decades. When a country overlooks education it starts to self-destruct in the long term; people becomes more manipulatable, less free, less happy and loses the ability to think clearly.
Here in Spain education is getting worse and worse since 15 years ago more or less, which is sad.

But the grass does always seem greener...

People produce shit all over the world; nice things are harder to find because don't smell so much and are not so easily produced; they have to be seeked.

[JDHill]

It's unfortunate. You should go to France because you love France, not because you don't like the US - it was never supposed to happen that a person could come to a place where staying or leaving the country was their only choice - we have fifty States after all, and one of them should surely be more to your liking. But these days, it's not the case...and we have two main groups of people to thank for it:

- Federal politicians in the business of selling a free lunch
- an over-abundance of non-thinkers who believe it's possible

When we sell out our State-level independence because we want to believe that some Federal bureaucrat can give us everything for free, the only thing that really happens is that the base of power shifts further toward Washington, and we lose the diversity of State that the country was built on. Freedom of movement was one of cornerstones of the original idea - you don't like how they do things in Massachusetts? Great - move to South Carolina where people think and govern more the way you would...the beauty was that you wouldn't have to give up your citizenship to do so.

Unfortunately though, the 'United States of' part of our name has been almost entirely co-opted by the 'America' part at this point.

[leoA4D]

Yesterday, I swore I would not post another word to this thread because it is not my kind of subject. However, Mike, you called me out. No guns strapped on but I am here.

First, I have to yield to you on the evidence you presented in your first post, the "95% of the Americans who complain...", – I do not know what 5% of the population (15 million?) here knows, thinks or whatever forget about 95%. You got me.

If you are happy and secure in this country, I think that is great. Did you know that limestone used in block form or ornamentation on buildings in an urban environment develops not only a patina and staining (character) but also a thin crust. Is it some kind of defense? No, the crust is a by-product that conceals the true condition of the interior which is more like granulated sugar because the natural matrix has chemically dissolved after absorbing acidic rain over time. I have first hand experience with limestone and am a keen observer of what is happening to a great country. I believe it is a responsibility of every person living in a democracy to peel back the obvious and know more about what lies below. Admittedly, this is not easily done because 5 or 6 companies control the news industry.

Britney is a pathetic soul but it seems her greatest contribution is as a diversion and maybe as drug to anesthetize the public. During a recent Britney episode, I asked a few people, one on the staff of a significant university, if they had heard that Belgium might split into two countries. None of them knew about it. It was not on CNN or MSNBC which had Britney ad nauseam. That story appeared a day or two later in the NY Times and it is possible it was on TV news. Is it a dumbing down of America? BBC carried the story.

Regarding the discussion you enjoy with your friends. I am pleased you feel secure from military dictators and that a jet flying overhead reminds you of just how powerful this country is. I unfortunately have had screaming fighter jets overhead in two theaters of combat; the first in another country and the other in my neighborhood on Sept. 11, 2001. Maybe the next time there is an incident it will be Boston, Miami, Chicago or Los Angeles. Not since the early 19th C had anyone attacked Americans on our soil and it was not suppose to happen, so we were led to believe. It is going to happen again and this likelihood is only disturbing.

For someone to post a note of disappointment with America in a far off corner of the world, such as this forum is, has to make one wonder how many others who came to this country to pursue a dream have similar feelings. That in and of itself does not propel me into the depths of dispair but put all the pieces together and it forms a grim picture for the future of this country. Dyarza mentioned the health insurance problems here as a contributing factor but in my opinion that is just one of many problems with known solutions that special interests will not allow to be solved.

I have a litany of issues, including many fundamentals, that I believe require serious, and regarding some – urgent, attention and none of them are discussed by the candidates. Each is offering how the deck chairs should be arranged on the Titanic. I will not bore you with my list.

I think we agree that America suffers from myopia, a short attention span and a blind trust in others to avoid participating in what is left of this democracy.

So, where is the grass greener? I do not know. Maybe, New Zealand.

Leonard

[hyltom]

It's really hard to give a piece of advice in a such personal matter. Think carefully and weigh the advantage and disadvantage of both living situation. The life of your daughter is more precious than anything, if you have to choose, think about her, her education and her future...where will she get the best?
My situation is different than yours (French living in China), but i put my son in the center of my choice. He deserves the best.

[-Adrian]

Great posts Mike and Leo.

I remember reading an article about the fluctuations in public awareness, when it comes to national issues. The author said, that after a long period of prosperity, there comes a point when focusing on joyous matter becomes so preferable to being critical of your own country/government, that people on the large start to ignore important issues (like a slow decrease in liberty).

Thankfully, once reality bites citizens in the ass, you have another re-awakening, a revolution etc. and public awareness is sharply focused on reclaiming their rights.

Would be a shame to get to that point of course.

United States of Jesus i think points to some of the issues foreigners see in the US today. The talk is centered on religious issues though.

In my experience on the web, i saw that american users on average (australians as well) stand out with their attitude. A simple "your a fag!" as a sign of disagreement shows me quite accurately what nationality i'm talking with. And of course you also have very smart citizens, as this board here, and the open minded ("treehuggers", "hippies", "commies") people i've met there clearly show. But i think that they're drowning if there isn't a shift of attitude in the general public soon. If every critic of the system is silenced, it cannot adapt and will eventually fail its original promise.

[Hervé]

I think a good gift France could do to US.. is ... the guillotine..hehe. very fast..

maybe you guys need a revolution... maybe.. maybe not... I am on the wrong side to judge...

[leoA4D]

Thanks -Adrian.

I checked out "United States of Jesus" and Pat Condell's subject is one on my list and IMHO, it is the single greatest threat to the union of this country.

The video reminds me of something that is related to Mike's post. Brits and Europeans seem to know us as well as we know ourselves and at times better than we know ourselves. (This is not intended to excluded people of other parts of the world. It is just that my wife is a Brit and Europe is more familiar to me.) It is the level of detail that is surprising and impresses me.

Has our country/government been hijacked by the religious zealots? There are several universities that were created by evangelical groups and are busy churning out loyal soldiers that have been placed in many high offices of our federal and state governments. The answer is a partial yes. Co-chairing with the religious groups at the top of the organization chart of this country is big business. These two entities have indeed taken control. There are also many consultants that help guide these two entities known as think tanks. If you are interested in how the Iraq war came about and the underlying plans of the American middle east policy, I refer you to the The Project for the New American Century, http://www.newamericancentury.org/state ... ciples.htm.

Thanks for posting the link.

Leonard

[dyarza]

Wow!

I wish I would generate this kind of interest in my rendering posts...

It certainly was not my aim to start a debate on the merits and downfalls of the American civilization here, but this is all interesting.

Mike, your firs post made some very good points, and in fact, it brought up memories of why I wanted to come to the US so badly. I grew up going to school down the road from a US Air Force base in Zaragoza, and the jets would go overhead all day long as we were right under the flight path. I was able to tell an F16 from an F111 by the sound they made, and yes, it made me feel great! They were indeed the good guys. I spent my childhood waiting for the time when I would move to such a great nation that exuded the power and confidence I felt.

Well, I did, and I have been here almost 20 years, and frankly, I still love it. It might be peeing outside, but Seattle is an utterly gorgeous place. I lived in Los Angeles for 6 years and I loved it too. The energy is tremendous, and there is a sense that anything can be accomplished. Hell, maybe I should just move back there, I do miss it!

I can't say that I disagree with some of the more pessimistic points being made in this thread, and yes, this country has changed in the last 20 years, but more importantly, I have.

So it was not my intention to bash the US. There are things that I may not like but that will happen everywhere. It really is just that I feel more at home over there. I have always loved France as well, and I have gotten to learn the lifestyle and I think it suits me better. Plus being closer to my family would be a plus.

Having said all this, in the last couple of days my wife has had a major freak-out as this started to get real. We were two clicks from booking an Air France flight to Paris to go look at some properties when she got some frigid feet. We have been talking about it for a long time, but when it got serious the fear struck. Can't say that I blame her but we will see. Just as I was posting this, she CCd me on an e-mail to the sellers of one of the properties, so she's still on board, just scared. It is a pretty big deal after all.

Thanks to all for your comments.

D

[jeffg]

Has our country/government been hijacked by the religious zealots? There are several universities that were created by evangelical groups and are busy churning out loyal soldiers that have been placed in many high offices of our federal and state governments. The answer is a partial yes.

How many universities are there in America that are churning out leftist zealots?

[Hervé]

Just one last word...

IF you really think about your daughter's future, you'll move no doubt to Luxembourg.. 1000%

(because I first did not know you had a valid European passport..)

[Leonardo]

I moved from the coldness of Delaware to Miami... My girl loved the whole place when we visit. Now, after two years she is feed up with cultural change!! Just warning you... not every body likes change and angry wifes are no joke! let us know how it goes

all great empires failed at some point... I believe America is on its way now... sad like you say... and indeed sadder is that you empathize....

The party's over.... hehe LOL...

Nahhh I am kidding... America is still the land of high hopes

Just some food for though.... Have you guys realize that a lot of countries depend on America (who else would buy their crap anyway )
If US goes down, they better find someone else to buy their **** or they will go down just as fast in a chain in reaction


Hell, when the Romans went down, we had 1,000 years of dark ages