[Polyxo]

I believe, that it is crucial in Design communication to define different areas of interest inside a product-visalization. Inside Maxwell we currently have only very limited options to do so. We can only render less important items as clay, give them AGS/Ghost materials or exagerate DOF.
I found Maxwell able of even more appealing graphics, if this program was capable of at least basic Non Photorealistic Rendering.
I am thinking of rendering Nurbs and SubD wireframes, representation of lines and dimensions with a thick and simple cartoon shaders.
Holger

For an in depth discussion:
http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0

And old project, where I tried to tackle Maxwells shortcomings:

[JDHill]

I am thinking of rendering Nurbs and SubD wireframes...

Well, that's the real trick, isn't it?

and it's gonna cost you something
extra...15,000...all in advance.



This would be a very huge undertaking. Triangles are simple to move between applications, but these other objects...Maxwell would actually have to be able to read data from the various 3rd-party modelers in their native non-mesh formats.

...but I guess this is the wish-list.

JD

[Polyxo]

This would be a very huge undertaking. Triangles are simple to move between applications, but these other objects...Maxwell would actually have to be able to read data from the various 3rd-party modelers in their native non-mesh formats.JD

Lets use tricks then. Extracted wireframes as linework would do for me. Easier?

[JDHill]

Much.

[Fernando Tella]

Cartoon shaders, outline shader,... have nothing to do with "other objects", right? I think that was the wish and I add mine to it.

[Tyrone Marshall]

NPR For Maxwell Render a unbiased render engine is not needed.

I understand the wish here, but you most likely have the tools necessary to achieve this render style.

If you have 3DSMAX or Cinema 4D, you have access to the best NPR products on the market for all time, and nothing beats them hands down.

Final Toon - 3DSMAX
Sketch & Toon - Cinema 4D.
Sketchup - Maxwell Render and Sketchup to Maxwell Render Plugin
http://www.escrappers.com/pencilsketch.htm
http://www.rnel.net/search/photoshop/toon-tutorials-1
http://www.spoono.com/photoshop/tutoria ... .php?id=61

There is no need for Maxwell Render to do this task when there two great examples of all-purpose render engines, (Sketchup), Photoshop, Painter or just about any image manipulation software fulfill this need very well.

It is about the synthesis of tools that make for this combination of render style if desired.

Here is an example of using Cinema 4D's Sketch & Toon Module, The Cinema 4D Maxwell Render Plugin and Maxwell Render.

[Fernando Tella]

Well, those are other products that cost more than what I paid for Maxwell.
"Unbiased" doesn't mean it's for scientific purposes; I use it for architectural viz and many other people use it for many other purposes which sometimes would benefit from a sketchy look.
As this is the wish section I wish Maxwell had that kind of shader. Some "other" unbiased renderers have done it, an offer that possibility.
Maybe it doesn't fit with Maxwell's philosophy, but it's up to NL to choose which path to take and how many things to give with their product.

Cheers.

[Polyxo]

I understand the wish here, but you most likely have the tools necessary to achieve this render style.
If you have 3DSMAX or Cinema 4D, you have access to the best NPR products on the market for all time, and nothing beats them hands down.

Hello Tyrone,
no I don't have a copy of the DCC programs you mention and do not need them for my work. What you suggest would mean for me:

- spending a considerable amount of extra money to get a fully fledged modeling application, which is good for a lot of things but not suitable for product-development.
- quite a bit of software learning effort (I come along in quite a few packages, but this would generally be the case)
- exporting Nurbs geometry as meshes from a 3D software which is suitable for rendering to another (which only works really good with Translator software (=extra $)
- compositing NPR content and Maxwell renderings in a Bitmap-Editor as obviously no NPR plugin runnning inside a DCC software allows direct blending with Maxwell content.

I find every single of these steps unacceptable. Compostiting PR/NPR stuff together may be a solution for those, who need this once in while. Working in this fashion on a regular basis is plain tedious, also if you own 3DSMax or Cinema. This is why I want to see NPR-options directly inside Maxwell.

Holger

[Tyrone Marshall]

It is not a tedious process using Cinema 4D's NPR with Maxwell Render. In fact it is very simple and fast.

I can produce these kinds of images and even more kinds of NPR styles quickly. The example I showed just happens to be one type of NPR style.

Maxwell Render is the highest quality unbiased render engine bar none, do not confuse this with NPR. Both terms contradict themselves.

Maxwell Render - Photo-realistic Render Unbiased
C4D Sketch and Toon - Non Photo-Realistic Render Biased.

[Tyrone Marshall]

Well, those are other products that cost more than what I paid for Maxwell.
"Unbiased" doesn't mean it's for scientific purposes; I use it for architectural viz and many other people use it for many other purposes which sometimes would benefit from a sketchy look.
As this is the wish section I wish Maxwell had that kind of shader. Some "other" unbiased renderers have done it, an offer that possibility.
Maybe it doesn't fit with Maxwell's philosophy, but it's up to NL to choose which path to take and how many things to give with their product.

Cheers.

Is there not a free version of Sketchup - does this work with the Sketchup plugin to Maxwell Render?

If so, you have a great NPR solution to mix with PR solutions produced by Maxwell Render.

It could not be more simple, you open photoshop, put the two together with the Sketchup Black and White render with Multiply for the layer compositing.

Simple 1 min exercise and you control the amount of blending between the two images.

[jo]

Is there not a free version of Sketchup - does this work with the Sketchup plugin to Maxwell Render?

No, it doesn't.

Ciao, Gio

[Polyxo]

@Tyrone:
I want to avoid export Nurbs-models (to Cinema, Sketchup - any mesh based package). As cameras had to match perfectly, exporting meant in consequence, that I had to build the complete scene in the software used to do the NPR pass. You probably also prefer doing your scene setup inside Cinema instead of using M.Studio, no? Whenever I wanted to alter or add geometry, I had to create it in Rhino, mesh it and add it to the Sketchup/Cinema, whatever scene (as meshes, created in Nurbs applications are typically not suitable for further editing in mesh-based applications).
I rather prefer doing the complete setup inside my favorite application, which has an excellent Maxwell plugin: Rhino

Holger

[dyarza]

I find it very strange to hear visualization professionals talking about not having or not wanting post-processing applications.

Personally, I have never done a rendering which was 100% done after the render itself finished. (Well, a couple of animation jobs) Everything touches Photoshop or Shake. By comparison, when I shoot "real" photography I never do a straight process of the film and the job is done. The same way that M~R is the best unbiased rendering and it captures the virtual world precisely, my Hasselblad has the best optics and captures the purest possible image of the real world. It is then up to me to use the imagery in a creative way to highlight whatever I deem important in the image.

I have no idea where this notion that one application should do it all came from. If cost is really the problem and you do not want to buy Photoshop, check out Gimp: http://www.gimp.org/ It is free and works on any platform. It (or Photoshop, Corel PhotoPaint... whatever) should be in everybody's bag of tricks. If you find post processing images too tedious, maybe you are in the wrong profession.

Sorry to sound blunt, but I keep seeing this request, and while it is perfectly valid to ask for it, the reasons why NL don't drop everything so they can implement it are even more valid.

Cheers,

D

[Polyxo]

I find it very strange to hear visualization professionals talking about not having or not wanting post-processing applications.

Hi dyarza,
I do not work as a visualization professional. I am Industrial Designer and presently spend most of my time teaching aspiring Designers at a University. Digital topics play a central role in my work. These include Modeling/Scanning/Rapid-Prototyping/and yes also basics of Digital Rendering among others. Time available to cover all mentioned content + to make students end up with great Designs based on that instruction is very limited.
My personal strategy is to use just a few but very accessible applications to streamline things as much as possible. We use Rhino (with some plugins) for surface modeling, basic programming, scan-mesh editing, reverse-engineering we create toolpaths and engineering drawings. Finally we also use it for rendering with Maxwell. (To round up things of course also different geometry creation priciples like SolidModeling and SDS-Modeling have their place).
Talking about Digital Rendering, Maxwell was the first application in the market, which I considered to teach at all. No other render-application, I used before did leave me with the impression to have things under control. In a way, that I could show others how to do it. I'm sure, you know, what I want to say with this. We definedly have a need for pretty pictures but there is no time to get my students to expertise with applications like say mental ray.
We also mostly don't need, what biased applications are good at -Speed - as we rarely need huge animations. So Maxwell absolutely comes with what we need, concerning quality and setup speed.
What we liked to have however, are basic illustrative rendering options, which are included in each and any fully featured rendering rendering system in the market: mental ray: has them, Vray: has them, Brazil: has them, Final Render: has them, Fry: has them (...)
All these firms advertise their products to be capable to create stunning photorealism but still allow geometry to be rendered as a wireframe.
For the same reason we do not want to use biased renderers, we also want to avoid extensive use of post processing at points, where this is not absolutely neccessary. And I consider it a shame, that a toolset which is great great for product communicatinon but also allows for a new range of additional artistic options is only available inside rendering packages, which are notoriously difficult to use.
Please also consider, that also a not too small number of fellow Maxwell users are not working as full time visualizers too. They are Architects or Designers of all sorts of items from Jewelery to Ships and they do the product communication themselfs. They would all profit from a product which keeps as easy to use as it is, but gets more versatile.

What I basically believe is, that those, who are strictly against implementation of NPR options inside Maxwell tend to spend all their energy to avoid their image at even the tiniest portion to tell that it is a digital creation. Such results may be pieces of Art when used for Advertisment and Film, good craftsmenship in many examples.
But in my opinion no good for many aspects of a Designers/Architects professional needs (I explained this in length). Just yesterday I saw the years exhibition of Architectural student work. Here became obvious again, that also other people judging students work have quite a similar opinion to mine. Of course some of the exhibited works were done inside Maxwell. But non looked like an XFrog botanic garden, nor like a a RPC-parking lot with some lost houses somewhere inside...

I am absolutely fascinated by options Maxwell delivers, to create photorealism. It is a great technology. But the question should be allowed, if it always makes sense to (exclusively) use it. Technologically every wooden window what was produced in the last twenty years is much more capable than every older. It insolates far better(noise,warmth) , it allows for more opening positions, it resists far better to burglars, and it generally lasts much longer. Bummer only, that non of them comes only close to the elegance of an Art Nouveau window.
A clear example, where engineers and craftsmens demands have won over those of the artist.

Holger

[Bubbaloo]

mental ray: has them, Vray: has them, Brazil: has them, Final Render: has them, Fry: has them (...)
All these firms advertise their products to be capable to create stunning photorealism