[Hybaj]

But what's the deal with this whole "information embargo" actually??

I have a vision of NL acting childishly heroish after releasing a good release to calm disbeleivers in a way like " Ha you thought the release would suck? Take that disbeleivers!! And shut up for next 2 years becase we're not going to change our behavior "

or or .. what's the deal.. please tell me somebody

[Mihai]

So.....how much have you seen of Zbrush 3?

[Boris Ulzibat]

So.....how much have you seen of Zbrush 3?

Much more then of Maxwell 1,5.
We have seen a number of features greater than 2 (Maxwell's hi-res+z-clip) and a release date.
This info was out for quite a long time already.

[iandavis]

I have to agree. This is NL's thing. Which NOBODY likes. Personally I don't know what they hope to gain except the obvious... which is freedom. If you don't tell people about upcoming features you are completely free to cut whatever features are unfinished at release date.

I figure this might get me banned, but NL could learn a lot from the way FryRender is developed. They have a set bunch of features and they just say, it will be in Beta1.7 which will be out (insert month here). they even post examples of the expected features, which may I add is 'micropoly displacement', instancing, true displacement, and a few others. I don't own FryRender, and I don't know if I will, but i certainly respect the open communication going on over there.

There must be SOME features that are non-negotiable, which will for sure show up in 1.5. What is the deal with showing off some of these features. Surely since it was supposed to be out already they MUST be close to completion. Or is this like the much trumpeted Version 1, then, months overdue we instead get something called "RC1" which wouldn't even install on my machine... or run for that matter.. "we are FINISHED, oops... didn't we mentioned by 'finished' we meant 'release candidate 1' ?

Also, people have REPEATEDLY requested a long-standing and much promised feature... displacement. This is a big thing for me and many others, and if it were showing up in 1.5 wouldn't it be nice if NL would put everyone's mind at ease. Do I need to purchase FryRender just to get the kind of render flexibility I THOUGHT I was getting, and was literally promised with Maxwell? If displacement is another year away, this is a very real possibility. I as a consumer have a very solid right to ask that question. it was promised with VERSION ONE... we are now getting version 1.5 without this very important feature for something called a LIGHT SIMULATOR. How can you simulate reality without displacement?

I'm a pretty patient guy, but a response like "how much do you know about zbrush3" just is insulting. For one. zbrush three is a FULL POINT RELEASE and second, LOTS. They are showing off lots of new features, which I've been looking at for weeks.

No excuse here. NL can come out and say "you will see when you see" but don't go trying to make everyone feel like it's unheard of for software vendors to show upcoming features in an UPDATE. Which is what we are dealing with here! sheesh!

I'm not trying to be difficult, but really. Also, if I'm incorrect in ANYTHING I've said, please correct me. I don't like making false statements.

Ian.

[Mihai]

The number one reason people don't like to use Zbrush is because of the awkward interface. Do you know anything about that? Why don't they just show it? It's so long overdue, why the big delay? Do you still have to save your meshes as "tools"? If not, how will that work exactly? I just gave an example, there are many others. If NL wants to wait until the official release, why does it bother you so much? Is this something so unheard of? As soon as a new feature is ready, should they just announce it, would that make you happy? This happened during alpha days, but it's not the same situation anymore, I can't put it in simpler terms.

[iandavis]

Mihai,

Some of us have been waiting YEARS for features that were due YEARS ago, and when NL plays the hush game and introduces NEW features it does irritate some of us. Just a little bit.

This has nothing to do with other people's products. This has to do with MAXWELL. It bothers us so much because after this long our little patience candle is pretty much burned to the bottom. Then when you put off someone's LEGITIMATE question by comparing Next Limit's actions with Zbrush. Well, it's just plain nonsense.

See what date I joined this forum? That was a few months after I purchased Maxwell. I was told at that time Version1 would be out in OCTOBER of 2005. here it is May 2007 and Next Limit still is adding new features without fixing/adding the ones we were expecting way back in the day... bla bla bla. So if we ask, 'gee, what features are we waiting for?' And you go "have you SEEN zbrush3". It stands to reason that some of us may take that as really ignorant.

I can't put it much clearer.

EDIT: I remember now why I stayed away from here for over a year.
so don't bother banning me. I'm out of here. Gunna go over to the FryRender Side. At least there... you get a STRAIGHT ANSWER TO A SIMPLE QUESTION.

[Mihai]

It's not like that's all I've said, or anybody else has said, or all that has been said on this subject Don't make it seem like that.

Some features that were announced are not here yet, on the other hand features which weren't originally in the plans, we've had for a while. So I don't know....I'm not the kind of user that says: if it doesn't have this particular feature, it's useless for me. I won't be happy until that feature is there, no discussion.

I've still had plenty of use for Maxwell and it's still doing things I can't do with any other renderer, even without certain features. So what more can I say, we are about to have a new release, and you will know everything about it in a short time.

Why I gave an example, is because you will find with almost every complex software ever made, it's about the same situation, especially with new technologies. You will find angry users, disappointed that things didn't go as planned. Every time and the same discussions. There comes a time when you realize, the repetition, the same comments, the same situations, are just not worth wasting any more energy on.

If you still decide to "hold a grudge" for years, and perhaps even after 1.5 is released, and then the whole thing starts again when another release is due.....I just don't get that, sorry.

[iandavis]

mihai,

Perhaps. I think you may find that a lot of people are pretty touchy about this kind of thing. A lot of us have invested a lot of time and patience in this software and to be responded to in that fashion just rubbed me the wrong way. If it's something out of context, then I'm sorry, which is why I put the disclaimer "if I've said anything incorrect..." but your response was capped with "...I can't put it in simpler terms." I'm afraid most people find that kind of statement condescending.

I for one am going to sign off this forum for a while. I'll be back in another year to see if things have improved.

If I'm not banned for this, anyone needing info about lighting or any other issue feel free to msg me or email me.

edit: Mihai, I think my cutting back on coffee has made me a little hair-trigger. I still think we deserve to know what's going on with the features we have been waiting for, for so long, but I didn't intend to attack you personally.

[Hybaj]

Mihai : Apples to Oranges... apples to oranges.... comparing something like maxwell is to an ultra-flexible and feature packed software like Zbrush is a complete nonsense. Start comparing renderers.

The thing with Zbrush interface is quite clear. You can blame them for making the worst interface ever but when we look at what the people are capable of doing with it, then it must be a usable interface. So the interface is working for them. The pixologic's logic is just like that " Quite alot of people create crazy art with it so why can't you?? Is it the user interface?? We don't think so. The software is not faulty. You are!". But it's really true that if the user interface was more friendly we would have seen more of the high-tech 3d art. Just more quantity.. the quality would remain the same.

When it comes to comparing Maxwell to others. It's clearly your fault that you can't do things with Maxwell what you can with other renderers. Renderers like Vray are so flexible that they can even exceed the quality of Maxwell, just because it's so flexible. The only difference is in time spent fiddling with the settings.

[pluMmet]

If you still decide to "hold a grudge" for years, and perhaps even after 1.5 is released, and then the whole thing starts again when another release is due.....I just don't get that, sorry.

If someone steals something from me and I see it in there window everyday and I get angry it's not a grudge. It's anger at a physical measurable injustice.

Observing "for years, and perhaps even after 1.5 is released" that I don't have what I was promised when I paid my money is anger at a physical measurable injustice.

Apparently I own 32 licenses of M~R now. As the people trickle from here to the other unbiased option it becomes more and more angering to see how nice things can be as the masses of the unbiased community come to understand that promises not only can be keep but are in an apples to apples way which is indisputable.

Don't worry as NL keeps to it's policy I'm sure no one will be complaining in the not so distant future

[Miles]

It's anger at a physical measurable injustice.

"physical measurable injustice"?

[-Adrian]

You guys crack me up, love ya

[Maxer]

You guys crack me up, love ya

I think NL takes the same attitude towards its customers.

[pluMmet]

It's anger at a physical measurable injustice.

"physical measurable injustice"?

I'm not sure I understand???

2. of or pertaining to that which is material: the physical universe; the physical sciences.


Did I spell something wrong?

I often do

_______

A grudge can be a nebulous feeling of ill will. That allows someone to question if the grudge is valid. I'm just saying that the anger cannot be questioned and is valid.

Not giving someone what is theirs and then telling them that their feeling of ill will is wrong is a piss poor way of doing things.

[Miles]

Sorry to laugh, Eric.

It was just the idea of justice being physically measurable.....