[Thomas An.]

Sounds far fetched ... but is there any truth in it ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1465ygw5HU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6G7dfpI

[Carl007]

We are living in a world of mirrors alright.

[mverta]

Dear God,

Enough of the baby boomers already. It's not funny anymore. We've been waiting for them to die, but they keep resurfacing; kinda like cockroaches. Frankly, Mom and Dad were enough, for me. I know why you don't want them in Heaven; you don't really want to be ass-deep in self-absorbed conspiracy nuts, either. Can you even have protest signs up there? What are they going to do all day? If you don't want to hear bong-resin-encrusted-cranium anti-establishment rhetoric incessantly for the rest of time, I suggest you build them a nice, big, pretend-Vietnam, with Joan Baez concerts 24-hours a day, and let them live out eternity there, railing against The Man and The Establishment while not actually, technically, accomplishing anything. It's all they do, anyway.

Thanks,

_Mike

[Thomas An.]

Yeah, it is kinda far fetched ... I mean suppose there was indeed no such law ... but then, what would these people expect ? ... a utopia ? .. where we pay no taxes *at all* ? ... how would any nation's system function if there was no funding for government activities ...

[tom]

There is such a law or not, income tax always seems to me like a racket. Because maybe I've never seen the return of it. They have rights to ask me every single amount I earn and pay for it, but I don't have a precise monitoring system for what the hell they are really doing with that and this is democracy.

[rusteberg]

Democracy is when 2 wolves and a sheep meet to decide who is for dinner.

Liberty is when the sheep has a gun.

[Boris Ulzibat]

There is such a law or not, income tax always seems to me like a racket. Because maybe I've never seen the return of it. They have rights to ask me every single amount I earn and pay for it, but I don't have a precise monitoring system for what the hell they are really doing with that and this is democracy.

Completely agree!
I have absolutely no idea what mekes me OWE my country. None at all!
The thing is - even free education was given to me by ANOTHER country! (former USSR)

[NicoR44]

It's a bizar story to say the least

[Mihai]

Well, sanitation, public health, garbage disposal, public roads, public education, social security. Ofcourse governments also spend a lot of cash on totally stupid things, but look around you and you will see why you have to pay taxes. How you pay them, how much and how to control what they are spent on, that's a completely different story

About the Federal Reserve, I believe this is how it's done more or less in all other countries. A system without a central bank would be better? Could lead to huge stability problems. Perhaps an economist can enlighten us......

[tom]

It's an absolute domination, a kingdom. No matter how much big percentage picked the guy(s) ruling us, they are ruling us in the way they want and democracy is a huge lie. When you talk about them or start something against, you'll be stopped and even killed. I can't see the mystical non-existing power paralyzing and programming everybody obey the system blindly. That's just "Fear", isn't it? Fear of jail, fear of dying from starvation, cold... maybe fear of army, weapons... exactly what? Not important. As long as it's fear, it means it's made of frightened people. Democracy!

[JDHill]

The US governmental system was founded on State's rights, it is the core principle. This is where we've gone wrong...conspiratorial bankers or not, the Federal govt. was never meant to be as intrusively powerful as it has become. To talk about paying no taxes is simply not logical, but the current state of affairs is ridiculous...take a look at the ratio of Federal vs. State tax paid. Then listen as a State Governor talks about things like 'Federal matching funds', where is the sense in this money-shuffling?

IMHO, the biggest reason this flawed system continues to operate at all is almost solely due to the Federal withholdings tax. This taxing system is one of the most insidious injustices ever instituted for two main reasons:

a) it keeps the citizenry from feeling the true sting of the total amount of tax they pay...rather many feel that the govt. is 'giving' them something in the form of a tax refund at the end of the tax year
b) it forces employers to become the Federal govt.'s tax collectors, under duress, and without compensation

Most of the political issues of the day have their true place in the State House. The greatest percentage of justified and necessary tax monies have their place in the State House.

[Thomas An.]

The US governmental system was founded on State's rights, it is the core principle. This is where we've gone wrong...conspiratorial bankers or not, the Federal govt. was never meant to be as intrusively powerful as it has become. To talk about paying no taxes is simply not logical, but the current state of affairs is ridiculous...take a look at the ratio of Federal vs. State tax paid. Then listen as a State Governor talks about things like 'Federal matching funds', where is the sense in this money-shuffling?

IMHO, the biggest reason this flawed system continues to operate at all is almost solely due to the Federal withholdings tax. This taxing system is one of the most insidious injustices ever instituted for two main reasons:

a) it keeps the citizenry from feeling the true sting of the total amount of tax they pay...rather many feel that the govt. is 'giving' them something in the form of a tax refund at the end of the tax year
b) it forces employers to become the Federal govt.'s tax collectors, under duress, and without compensation

Most of the political issues of the day have their true place in the State House. The greatest percentage of justified and necessary tax monies have their place in the State House.

Good points.
I am new to this and initially thought that the message was that we should pay no taxes at all ... but ... if you put it under the light of Federal vs State type of scenario then it starts to make a little more sense.

... but isn't State tax a form of income tax too ? ... and suppose there was no federal income tax (suppose it was all State) ... wouldn't it be the same thing in the bottom line ? Can a state (say Colorado) tax the citizens and then the federal government taxes the state (instead of taxing us directly) ?

[JDHill]

There is no problem with income tax...as Mihai said, it's going to take x-amount of money to have a government, and more specifically, to provide the services its people expect it to. The beauty of the distributed power of the original US model is that the people of each State have wide lateral power to decide for themselves exactly what those services should be.

If you like paying 80% of your income to taxes, in order that many services are taken care of for you, then live in a state that runs that way. If not, live in a state that doesn't. At least in a state-sized jurisdiction, you have the possibility of projecting your individual wishes to your representatives.

The Federal govt.'s purpose is to bind the States together, in order to project unified power externally, to resolve disputes between States, things of that nature...it should not be involved in the everyday life of the individual.

[Thomas An.]

Yes but does that really solve the problem ? It only makes it more abstract giving us a sense of false control. No ?

For example, in your scenario, if I was the federal government then my goal would become to coerce (or "entice") the states, behind the scenes, into offering a unified set of programs (ones that are approved by me). Sort of consolidating most major media under a single Murdock-type power; preserving the sense of false variety to people while at the same time have some control on content.

[JDHill]

That is the situation, when the citizenry is not taking care to elect State Representatives to the Congress that will keep true to the principles that they were elected to support. And it's how we got to where we are...it is the people. Most don't pay attention to government at all, State or Federal. They give their rights away every day.

But they know for sure some crap about the latest episode of their favorite TV show...