[daros]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... noop01.xml

[Thomas An.]

[mverta]

I'm not going to pretend the US government isn't using any excuse they can find to gain more power and control over people. Like any self-respecting government or religious institution, more power in fewer hands is the only goal, and all other functions are marketing schemes.

But I have to concede that we've not had any attacks since 9/11. It is possible that all the ways we get our hands dirty may be the lengths a country has to go to to end that shit. Certainly, other countries seem to either be willing to accept terrorism, or unable to stem it. And the US, being so "hated" should be target #1, yet the most effective at preventing it. Another reason to hate us, I suppose... when not importing every last damn thing from our society, that is. Anyway, personal freedoms/privacy have been gone for decades, so it's sort of cute the way people get all up-in-arms about it, now that they've heard a soundbite on CNN. For more on that, call up 10 of your friends on the phone and tell them how you'd like to kill the president - mention him by name. When the nice men show up, ask them how they knew about it.

_Mike

[Boris Ulzibat]

I'm not going to pretend the US government isn't using any excuse they can find to gain more power and control over people. Like any self-respecting government or religious institution, more power in fewer hands is the only goal, and all other functions are marketing schemes.

That's it! I hate when people think i for some reason hate Americans, when they hear my critiques to some of the government's (american i mean) deeds.
And i am curious, why noone thinks i am hating Russians, when i do the same stuff towards our own government!

[deadalvs]

where will this lead to ?

i can understand that fear screams for security, but only upping security by any means spreads even more fear.

big brother is watching You...

* * *

Boris... remember Ivan Drago ?



* * *

these times will never pass, i think.

will this be the future ?




* * *

deadalvs

[Boris Ulzibat]

where will this lead to ?

i can understand that fear screams for security, but only upping security by any means spreads even more fear.

big brother is watching You...

* * *

Boris... remember Ivan Drago ?

Nope, i don't... At least i just don't understand who yuo are talking about

The word "Terrorism" originates from "terror". It has only one mean - making people afraid. And all the massmedia panic-talks, all the crazy-security-measures - all this only HELPS terrorists.
They don't need any more attacks - people already are scared to death. And when they start getting used that they need to take off their shoes in the airports - another attack happens and people have to suffer even more strict security.
What next? walking naked to show that we don't wear bomb belts?

In this case it would be much better to conceal as much info as possible, so that people would think of technological breakdowns as the reason of plane crashes and exploding buildings, but... Fear gives power to governments.

[mverta]

Governments merely capitalize on the fear of its citizens. There is the fear that governments and religions themselves create (Order Ab Chao), and there is the inherent fear of the primitive uber-monkey. One will never see the end of governmental pursuit of power, but the citizens have the ability to govern their own fears, and thus limit the control they give to others.

_Mike

[deadalvs]

Nope, i don't... At least i just don't understand who yuo are talking about

Ivan was the great russian (red of course) bad boy in the boxer film «Rocky» with Sylvester Stallone. the film was made in the 80s, so in the full cold war tween USA and the USSR.
i just wanted to mention the hated hero which always came from russia...

i think this is over with russia, the new scapegoat is found in the middle east...

* * *

deadalvs

[mverta]

Scapegoat? You almost make it sound like intra-country hatred is something unique to America. Believe me, on this account, the USA is very late to the game. Every country hates some other country(ies); every religion hates some other religion; every race hates some other race; every society hates some other society; every philosophy hates some other philosophy. Hating each other, and then murdering one another for pleasure and profit, are man's most truly unique talents.

_Mike

P.S. It's Rocky IV, not Rocky. Big difference - the original Rocky was an wonderful underdog hero story; the franchise had not yet deluded into goofiness.

[jdp]

... every renderer hates some other renderer...

[mverta]

see?

[Mihai]

It's not mans unique talent, we just do it in a more complex manner

Monkeys, dolphins, elephants, lions, wolves......every creature with a somewhat developed brain does it, but only with different levels of complexity. Perhaps it stems from the instinct of preserving your own space and blood line. Opinions come from your personality, your person, so what you think, must prevail. Everything else is not as good and only acceptable if it doesn't intrude on your space.

[mverta]

Animals kill each other for survival - Humans don't. Killing a black man because you've decided he's a "mud person" isn't an act of survival. Killing Jews because they worship differently, or because you've decided they're sub-human, isn't an act of survival. No monkey, dolphin, elephant, lion, or wolf ever killed another creature for the hell of it, which humans do all the time. And perhaps you'd like to talk about torture... want to know how many animals torture one another? Zero. An animal only kills for a purpose directly and quantifiably tied to their survival - for food, shelter, competition from a competing blood-line, etc. They're not "less complex" murderers. They're not murderers. We are.

If you're going to pick a side to debate on, I probably wouldn't recommend the God's Special Creature angle...


_Mike

[Mihai]

Dolphins rape other dolphins, monkeys tease and in a way "torture" each other.

There is such a thing as hate between animals as well. They inflict more damage to another more than is necessary for survival. Superiority and fear of the unknown, they have it too. Jealousy....

Hate works for humans as well, it's just more sophisticated, but the propaganda is aimed at our basic animal instincts. Someone wants to hurt us, someone wants to intrude on our space. This is how you get a whole nation to accept putting people in concentration camps. The vast majority doesn't do it because of pleasure but because propaganda has awakened their basic instincts of fear and thus hating someone. This is really not unique to humans.

I don't agree with this view that "humans are even worse than animals". That is just one step away from "they" are even worse than animals. All life should be respected, the complexity of it. You cannot pretend to respect certain species while speaking in contempt of the most complex one. Just my opinion

[Thomas An.]

... You cannot pretend to respect certain species while speaking in contempt of the most complex one. Just my opinion

Yet, it is possible, that a species is poorly designed (having genetic defects in its complexity) ... and when that happens (evolutionaly speaking) it does not stand the test of time ... it eventually becomes extinct.

As of this point, many markers indicate that humans are in a straight course to extinction (or some cataclysmic event; due to biosphere overload) ... and if that indeed happens it will constitute evidence of "defect". Of course there is one way to find out (... time ... )