[pluMmet]

What I really wanted to post was this:
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Men want to understand and Women want to be understood.

Understand me? I fear I am beyond your comprehension.
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-Sheba

Thanks Sheba- I wasn't trying to assert that men understood anything. Just a general need to understand.

What I failed to understand myself is that a forum is no place for a discussion like this. I should have remembered the study that showed how on forums, chats and email people were understood only 40% of the time while direct speech was more like 80%. If it were direct I could have seen the look of horror on everyone’s face and directed my conversation toward resolving what was misunderstood. My own voice and attitude would have caused people to think of my words differently. Then the conversation would have grown into it's intent which for me wasn't justification for actions but trying to understand motivation. For only then can we change the action.

Which by the way would be a solution

[pluMmet]

There is no "cause and effect" or lack of problem-solving skills involved in violent acts toward anybody. People abuse other people because they are sick and it makes them feel good.

Perhaps you are correct Fran but let me tell you why I think there is "cause and effect" in an abusive relationship:

Some years ago a friend came to me and said how poorly his relationship was going and that he had begun hitting his girl friend. My normal response would be anger but I could see how ashamed he was in telling me. So I asked him why. He said that she just made him so angry. I encouraged him to stop seeing her and the conversation trailed off into nothing.

Shortly after I was at his house while she was there. They began to argue. She began hitting him. Closed fist at times and open fist at others. I was in shock at what was happening and confused as what to do. After she had hit him repeatedly (some 20 to 30 times) he pushed here down on the ground. You must be very clear on that point. HE PUSHED HER DOWN. She arose and began screaming that he had no right to hit her and I began to understand what was going on. I jumped up from the couch which startled her and as I approached her she stepped up one stair as this happened at the foot of the stairs. I threw my arms up to separate them and as i came to a stop between them my head was touching her shoulder.

She screamed, "You can't touch me!" I said very calmly "I'm not hurting you." It took her a moment to see that there was no arguing the point, as I was not hurting anyone. Then I said to her "You can't hit someone and expect them to not hit you back."

I've had a lot of time to reflect on this situation as it was 15 years ago. After observing these types of situations with that scenario in mind I have never seen a situation where both parties weren't at fault. It's easy to sympathize with the weaker party especially when they differ reasoning to protecting an even weaker individual (like children.)

I assume wrath will ensue after this statement but they are both sick. It's sick to make excuses why you must be mistreated just as it is to mistreat.

Having said that I'm sorry to have gotten involved in this but I just wanted to complete what I was saying with the hope of not being missunderstood.

Let me humbly say that your rational is correct. It is hurting the children. As a mother you must see that only a sick person would not be able to see how important it is to not have children around that.

[aitraaz]

hmm this thread keeps bringing to mind Alain Roger's 'Le Misogyne':

'My saying that I love you hardly does it justice. I love you not like a child, or a brother, or a spouse, but all three at the same time, and I especially love the woman buried deep within you, whose presence I recognize in all your gestures and your crimes...'

[Frances]

hmm this thread keeps bringing to mind Alain Roger's 'Le Misogyne':

'My saying that I love you hardly does it justice. I love you not like a child, or a brother, or a spouse, but all three at the same time, and I especially love the woman buried deep within you, whose presence I recognize in all your gestures and your crimes...'

He left out the part, "And then there's that one day a month when your head spins a full 360..."

[aitraaz]

lol, that's the final chapter...