[Maya69]

i m totaly agree

time is money

i m sorry but i want continu work wich arc i need a good solution interieur and exterieur render

time max is 12 hours ......


if you see a description the maxwell product

nl says "a large number of area light whithout incurring a significant performance loss"

tom realy you think this right ?

[tom]

Speed issue will be always on the top of the list.
Thank you for reminding this once again.
When there's something more possible,
NL will make it as soon as available.

Best regards,
Tom

p.s: ... and yes, there are very challenging situations for other engines that maxwell can smoothly handle.

[Maya69]

yes we know and hope

but....

[aitraaz]

maybe 2-3 hrs for some more simple scenes dunno...

...anyway Maxwell is young and pretty ambitious so there's no sense in expecting the impossible...

...The problem is integrating it (now) into a production workflow...i've used it in some production situations, and the problem is, at least my end, that clients almost always tend to ask for most changes at the last minute, so i've been in situations where i've presented renders which were calculated in Maxwell in 3 days time, and the client is really satisfied, then says, 'ok thats great, i need the following list of changes for tomorrow...,' at which point, I've found my self in some serious difficulty...(eg., screwed)

...and yes it is relatively slow, but if you go into more 'expensive' solutions in other apps (dof, qmc, light cache etc) high quality results can get pretty long render times too so maybe in certain situations maxwell isnt so slow after all...

[Maya69]

i am alway agree

for production is difficult for the moment

maxwell is a fun render but for the moment only a fun render

but this the best if you work in university lab ( no time contrainte)


i think for the futur maxwell is good solution

for the present i don't know !!!!!!

and i very sad because no news for the release................

best regard

[aitraaz]

...At present for production it boils down to finding 'safe' situations where you can wow clients and avoid any problems which come up due to maxwell's inflexibility...

...then maybe in the future some kind of biased solution would be brill but that depends on the relationship between 'physically accurate' and 'unbiased' algorithms i suppose...unless of course 'unbiased' is an ideological issue which would be interesting just the same...

[Micha]

The problem of Maxwell is for me not that it is slow. It is ok for difficult situations. I feel maxwell is not slower than biased renderer in full quality-full GI - full caustic - best antialiasing mode.

The problem is, that Maxwell can not be fast. There is not option "make it biased and fast". The user need two renderer, the luxury Maxwell and the fast biased renderer. I hope, NL will make, that the user need only one renderer.

I would wish to get some time save options like "sample interpolation" and "max bounce". I think, if Maxwell will be faster in the future, it can not be fast enough for many user without some biased tricks.

[Mihai]

I think the problem is, how do you make something just a little bit biased? Is it possible with the methods Maxwell is using? There are no photon maps or irradiance maps....

[Maxer]

One of the things that makes Maxwell great is its very simple setup. If you go to an biased method you almost have to make the interface more complicated so that the user can manually adjust settings in order to get the result desired. That's why I have an almost love hate relationship with Maxwell, I love what it does and don't want it to change but I hate the long render times.

[aitraaz]

...yeah we can only speculate only NL has the keys to this stuff...

eg. 'if maxwell has a set of algorithms for light transport ergo 'physically accurate' which are relatively independant of biased/unbiased issues, then why insist on unbiased?'...i mean, as far as i understood the mlt/bi-directional calculations necessarily needed unbiased algorithms but this is pure speculation on my part...

[Micha]

I don't belive that we only can choose between biased & confuse controls or unbiased & simple controls.
First, Maxwell is a unbiased renderer and nobody must use any speed optimize option, if he don't like it.
Second, speed optimization can be simple - for example a bounce control or an internal denoiser (this denoiser could be used less at higher sampling levels).

At the moment it is possible to deactivate caustic layers. Why nobody come and say: please delete this options and make all enable everytime?

[giacob]

adehus,

It is relative because you cannot consider time with other renderers
because there's no alike about its technology. It's the same with
comparing melons to watermelons. They seem alike but it's not.
The results you have with other renderers are not the same about reality.

Best regards,
Tom

good commercial
.. i think maxwell can be used professionally for exteriors ( if u dont need to look trough glasses) but not for interiors , above all for architectural interiors ... animation of interiors is prohibited ( unless one have a large render factpry) .. exterior animations can be done

[aitraaz]

The funny thing is, giacob, is that I think they really believe this- that the quality means that time isn't important.

I doubt (at least hope) that they think this...if i had to guess i'd say that they were bent on creating the most physically accurate rendering model done to date, and that, most likely for them, takes precendence over speed issues...bi-directional path tracing, spectral calculus, unbiased, etc...and that adds up to slow render times, at least for the time present...

Again its speculation on my part, but i think they recognize the need for speed but that it is more important to create a working core as physically accurate as is possible...maybe once the core is solid they could consider a second biased system, but i think that stage is still a bit far off...

[Maxer]

If that's so then my question is for what purposes are they creating this software when its stated use is for architectural illustrations and most everyone who does these illustrations will be unable to use Maxwell for its stated purpose? They are creating a tool for us to use for a specific image type but for all intents and purposes it's unable to deliver on the promise because it's to slow. What's the point?

[tom]

adehus,

It is relative because you cannot consider time with other renderers
because there's no alike about its technology. It's the same with
comparing melons to watermelons. They seem alike but it's not.
The results you have with other renderers are not the same about reality.

Best regards,
Tom

good coomercial

The funny thing is, giacob, is that I think they really believe this- that the quality means that time isn't important. Tom says you can't compare renderers, and I seriously disagree. It's inevitable that comparisons will occur, and if Maxwell is found to be too slow then people will pass it over. I honestly don't think there is any one factor that is more important than speed.

Of course time is important adehus, you're right.
But you can't eat a tuna fish in the same time you eat a sardine.