[dmeyer]

I've got a new dual GTX580 box sitting here that needs broken in if you'd like to test GPU arion.

[Aniki]

Looks good -- here's my final IBL version from Maxwell.

dragontester_SL24.jpg

Best,
Jason.

So it seems that SSS still performs much better with HDRI lighting than emitters..

My Maxwell Image was about SL 24 as well..

[Half Life]

I also enabled color multilight which helps (or at least used to) with certain colors to render more accurately... if I remember correctly oranges were one of the problem colors and parts of this look orangesque to me.

I think the harshness of the lighting from the emitter plane doesn't help, maybe a second emitter might speed things up -- but I could be wrong there.

Also, this isn't legit for comparison purposes but (since I have this compulsion to always prove to myself that post-processing is necessary no matter what engine you use) I thought I'd share my final:

dragon_tester_post.png

Best,
Jason.

[thxraph]

Hey guys
i have everything ready but no internet connection. hopefully it will be back tomorrow. im posting from my phone.

Raph

[thxraph]

Hello Guys,

First, some files to play with!

Here is the scene (46.6mb), it takes less than 256mb of GPU ram:
http://gallery.realistic-design.com/ari ... _arion.zip

Here is the material I posted earlier:
http://gallery.realistic-design.com/ari ... thane2.rcm

Here is the material posted in the repository (color variation, less yellowish):
http://gallery.realistic-design.com/ari ... df_2.0.zip

Why I said earlier the comparision isn't fair:

From the Maxwell point of view: Arion can use GPU to help rendering, this means, you can litteraly throw all the ressources of you computer to compute the render. I rendered on a core I7 950 (base frequency) + a Nvidia 275GTX GPU. This GPU was one of the fastest when I get it, now it's just a low end one if you compare it to a 580GTX for exemple (cf images). Yet, my 275GTX is already 2 to 3 time faster than my core 7i at rendering, and the 580GTX is several time faster than my 275GTX! + you can actually have more than 1 in your computer. As Maxwell is CPU only, if you have just 1 correct GPU to render along with your CPU, Arion will be several times faster than with Maxwell.

From the Arion point of view: Maxwell is a bidireccional render engine, this means the rays are traced from the camera and from the emiters, this helps **A LOT** cleaning bad cases like little emiters, strong indirect lighting, bad situations when both are involved plus if the scene uses hard materials like frosted dielectrics and/or SSS (just like our dragon). Add to that, and this is only a speculation (Mihai can confirm that maybe) that 2.6.1 of Maxwell seems to have bidireccional SSS (it already has bidirectional dielectrics & frosted - roughness > 0 - dielectric since V2), this means a great boost at rendering this scene in Maxwell 2.6.1. Arion on its side is "unidireccional", this makes him slower in hard cases, like this dragon scene. Yet, you can activate the tremendous amount of rendering power that is a GPU.

So to be fair: we'd need to render with a bidireccional Arion, or with a CPU + GPU Maxwell. Ofcourse none of that will happen now, so the results are to be taken carefully.

Now, as I said I'd be fair and unbiased, I'd like to correct what Bubbaloo said earlier about Maxwell SSS behing several version refined, etc.
This is not correct (from the Arion side): Arion has benefit from Fryrender R&D, the fry SSS has already been refined, so Arion isn't using the 1st version of SSS. Arion also uses (since 1.5.1) the BRDF (material system) in a V2 version, with a new SSS and highly enhanced frosted glass (especially with small emiters). So Arion isn't at V1 of the SSS & materials system, it is at least at V2. So we can't say here: hey Maxwell already had several version of refinement in the material, so it's normal that it is superior. As Arion isn't at the first version either. It is no excuse here.

Ok, now stop the shity blabla, stop the talk, show da pictures!

1. The material we try to reproduce, as you can see, it can have several colors (no to say all), and different roughness too. So lets judge the effects.



This one has golden parts, ignore them:


2. Some arion images (sorry for the different exposures, I didn't render all of them):
6h on my computer, using CPU+GPU (1x275gtx):


Overnight render (can't tell when it gets clean, it's just as a reference of a clean, final render):


What you can expect using 2x 580GTX (rendering time on the images)



I don't need to say anything on time VS GPUs VS amount of noise, the images pretty much say it all.

Now what we all want to see is testing the scenes on Aniki's computer with CPU only on Arion and Maxwell.
Also i'd be nice to see a 1h Arion render on a similar config but using a GPU too.
Also, taking off totally the speed of the equation, what is the best final aspect.


EDIT: Exposure corrected final render (level):


If you need anything else from me, please feel free to ask.

Raph

[Aniki]

So to sum up the comparison&results in one post:

Maxwell Render with thxraphs adapted polyurethane shader


Arion with thxraphs custom polyurethane shader




Arion with the adapted polyurethane preset of Maxwell


Maxwell Render with Maxwell polyurethane sss preset


cheers

Aniki

[Maximus3D]

Not that much difference at all between the two. The amount of noise is about the same in both renders.

Good job both of you!

/ Magnus

[Half Life]

Very interesting stuff -- it really shows the differences in the engines pretty well. There are things to like about both versions... but what I noticed most in the roughness for Arion must be on a different scale from Maxwell because it was noticeably different for the "same" settings.

Overall I think Arion revealed the form a bit nicer -- but I liked the SSS materials in Maxwell better (especially the caustic bits).

Best,
Jason.

[Aniki]

Arion Rendering 60 Minutes CPU -only, Scene from thxraph



Maxwell Rendering 60 Minutes CPU -only, adapted polyurethane shader from thxraph's scene



cheers

Aniki

[thxraph]

Aniki, seems that you pretty much mastered the way of converting the materials from 1 engine to the other ^^
here we can see that the bidirectional nature of Maxwell is helping much. On the previous renders tho, we seen that some parts of the Maxwell render are very clean while other still have strong visible 'powder' noise, while the Arion render is less clean yet has very uniform noise. hard to say which of the 2 would be clean first.
Please can you post the zip of the last converted maxwell scene so i can run a test on Maxwell, cpu only in 1 side, and arion CPU+GPU, on the other.

Thank you
Raph

[Aniki]

http://www.uglykids.org/ref/PaG2.zip

The settings are just adapted directly actually

Arion seems to lack the "Force Fresnel" Setting though.

cheers

Aniki

[thxraph]

OK! just got the scene. I'm gona render 1h on Maxwell, 1H on Arion CPU, 1h on Arion CPU+GPU, also, the Arion materials has been edited slightly to match the Maxwell's one. If I'm not dead tonight, after i'm done rendering, i'll post the results here.

Raph

[Aniki]

great, looking forward to the results/ resumees then

[thxraph]

Here we are,

I'm using another material, that is a match of your scene's material (sss/colors wize, at least).
here it is:
http://gallery.realistic-design.com/ari ... mwlike.rcm

Configuration:
CPU: Core 7i 950 (3.06GHz), 24GB of RAM
GPU: Nvidia 275 GTX, 1,78Gb of RAM

Maxwell 2.6, 1h:


Arion, CPU only, 1h


Arion, CPU+GPU, 1h


As we can see, the Maxwell's is much cleaner. Yet it has parts with strong noise that are the internal reflections & caustics, those parts will take a long run to cleanup.
The Arion's render is noisier, yet all the caustics are integrated since the very beginning, and what you are seeing, is the final image, noisy yes, but all the effects are there already (self caustics, floor caustics).

Raph

[Aniki]

Now I am waiting/hoping for tom to join in