[pluMmet]

I just think the content of some of the posts appear to be by people trying to start a food fight. The idea that such posts would be beneficial or speed development of Maxwell seems ill conceived to me.

I appreciate the entire post from which this quote came. Thank you for not mocking

Concerning the specific part I have quoted:
It is extremely beneficial for us to stand together and tell NL that the lack of interaction from them is unacceptable. Microsoft has just seen the power of complaining people as it has reversed its EULA of Vista due to costumer’s complaints. That is the effect we should be looking for here at NL.

One of the many Vista complaint threads:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=417046

Thread showing MSs reaction:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=425137

[Hybaj]

Time to go check out the Fry Forum to see if anybody has posted anything with interesting refraction, caustics of all stripes and dispersion. No prisms or gems to date though.

You're silly and you're pissing on your own shoes. It's easy to copy words of doubt from people who try to be smart but have no idea of current rendering methods and the way they work. That's just catching at straws. There should be maybe questions about the speed of reflective caustics/refraction but not their goddamn obvious existence. It's getting just too retarded and it brings in questions about the inteligence of the people involved. Artists tend to have heavily biased views on software itself. Not knowing atleast a tiny grain of the theories and basics how it internaly works leaves you no option then to make a fool out of yourself everytime.

[-Adrian]

I really am surprised people are offended by this, i know i'm never gonna be buying fryrender myself but i thought it'd be a breath of fresh air. In the Modo forum 'feature request' section we have screenshots of LW, Silo, Zbrush & Co. all the time and it's always along the lines of "do we need this?", "we already have this, check script xyz", "yes lux, please add this!!111", no harm done. Anyway, seeing that this topic is unwelcome, i respect that and will not contribute to it on this board in the future fellow maxwellians.

<3

[pluMmet]

It seems that Hybaj and I have read the same post from glypticmax and interpreted it differently. It's a shame glypticmax that you are known for mocking and no one knows when you are or aren’t

I really am surprised people are offended by this, i know i'm never gonna be buying fryrender myself but i thought it'd be a breath of fresh air. In the Modo forum 'feature request' section we have screenshots of LW, Silo, Zbrush & Co. all the time and it's always along the lines of "do we need this?", "we already have this, check script xyz", "yes lux, please add this!!111", no harm done. Anyway, seeing that this topic is unwelcome, i respect that and will not contribute to it on this board in the future fellow maxwellians.

<3

Adrian that is the way it should be. Don't let the few Negative people stop us from having an open forum

[glypticmax]

Time to go check out the Fry Forum to see if anybody has posted anything with interesting refraction, caustics of all stripes and dispersion. No prisms or gems to date though.

You're silly and you're pissing on your own shoes. It's easy to copy words of doubt from people who try to be smart but have no idea of current rendering methods and the way they work. That's just catching at straws. There should be maybe questions about the speed of reflective caustics/refraction but not their goddamn obvious existence. It's getting just too retarded and it brings in questions about the inteligence of the people involved. Artists tend to have heavily biased views on software itself. Not knowing atleast a tiny grain of the theories and basics how it internaly works leaves you no option then to make a fool out of yourself everytime.

I laughed so hard, I *did* piss on my shoes.
More please........

[samsam]

Guys, I enjoy the discussions about Fry and think they are a valuable contribution to this forum but please try not to get so offended and angry with other peoples opinions. It is after all only a renderer.

FWIW looking at Frys renders on the forum I think Maxwell currently produces superior results - but in the future who knows...

I for one am very pleased that there is direct competition. As you all know competition generally favours us - the consumer.

Getting back on topic - I thought the problem with a monte-carlo type ( or whatever maxwell uses) rendering solution was that it has to have all the polygon information in memory at once. It isn't a bucket renderer like renderman or vray. Hence on-the-fly micro poly tesselation is impossible to do as it defeats the ability of the renderer to sample everything at once.

If this is correct then I would imagine the suggestion that fry pre-tesselates its displacement is entirely appropriate and indeed if NL were to offer displacement then maxwell would also need to pre tesselate and displace it's polygons.

(I'm not sure how Vray handles this with its ppt solution though)

[pluMmet]

Guys, I enjoy the discussions about Fry and think they are a valuable contribution to this forum but please try not to get so offended and angry with other peoples opinions. It is after all only a renderer.

Watching glypticmax incite others is far more grievous then those people getting upset.

Do you stand by as a foul 10 year old picks on a 5 year old?

glypticmax is not addressing anything I have said in my last 2 posts even though they are on topic in which he has been engaged...he just goes to where he can cause trouble

[-Adrian]

Getting back on topic - I thought the problem with a monte-carlo type ( or whatever maxwell uses) rendering solution was that it has to have all the polygon information in memory at once. It isn't a bucket renderer like renderman or vray. Hence on-the-fly micro poly tesselation is impossible to do as it defeats the ability of the renderer to sample everything at once.

This always puzzled me, but i have close to no knowledge about now a raytracer works technically, rather than theoretically.
Anyway, here my question on biased bucket renderers: Since oftentimes the whole scene contributes to the bucket being rendered, may it be in terms of a shadow, diffuse or specular lighting, how can the engine compute the result without having the whole scene cached?

@baboule: I'm very fond of it aswell, have seen several papers on parallax mapping and what could derive from it.

[glypticmax]

Hi Plummet,
I appreciate your understanding of my previous posts.
Sorry for the delay in acknowledging.
I don't get how I *incited* anyone. Hybaj's post was pointless. Best to laugh at stuff like that.
However, any suggestion I have any negative intent is not accurate.
I find negative, flame-like and insulting posts as irritating as everybody else.
I visit Forums to learn. Nothing more.
I work with 4-5 year olds all day. Real ones.
And yes, I'm silly.

[samsam]

This always puzzled me, but i have close to no knowledge about now a raytracer works technically, rather than theoretically.
Anyway, here my question on biased bucket renderers: Since oftentimes the whole scene contributes to the bucket being rendered, may it be in terms of a shadow, diffuse or specular lighting, how can the engine compute the result without having the whole scene cached?

Adrian - I know what you mean about this - especially when it comes to reflection & refraction - this explanation seems to fall down. There was something about all this on the modo forum ages ago but I can't find it.

Perhaps it's easier with a narrow bundle of ray traced rays to open up & explore a collection of volumetric subdivs along the vector of the reflection while with MntCrlo-ish rendering everything really does need to be there all the time as you are dealing with a more spherical & diverse set of samples.Also I think that with bucket rendering and displacement there is a finite limit on how complex and how large the displaced polys actually are in relation to the base poly and perhaps this can be built into the way the renderer deals with its 3d volume sampling and memory handling.

Hopefully a grown up will be along shortly to explain this properly...

[Hybaj]

Baboule: The only trouble with that trick is that we're not going to have self-shadowing. You can use the curved relief maping plugin and render in Vray with PPT but then again no self shadowing and that makes it look a bit lousy.

Glypticmax : Ok gem teacher I guess I blew it a bit with last post. You know probably why. Look i'm just trying to be objective. If i see black I say black and have no reason to say grey and cover it with petals. People are being unfair and childish for the wrong reasons. They can be like that if they act upon an objective issue and not their phantasmagorias and weird games.

[pluMmet]

I don't get how I *incited* anyone.

Had you simply said that he misunderstood it would have been at the very least less incite full.

Concerning your statement "The idea that such posts would be beneficial or speed development of Maxwell seems ill conceived to me." It is clear that based on the fact that MS has spent I'm sure thousands of dollars in lawyer fees to change their EULA due to complaints that the process is well conceived.

How would you effect a change in NLs methods? Do you find that the fry people are more open to their costumers and what are the benefits to such a software developer?

So far it just seems that you have opposition to an idea of how to handle NL. What is your idea?

Please answer those questions.

Let me finish by saying that had NL said that there are no promised features and we have no plans to inform anyone about what is happening then no one would have room to complain

[glypticmax]

Hi Gents,

Hybaj; No worries here. I look forward to you sharing your knowledge of how render engines work. I'm just a *user* and leave the stuff under the hood to others.
Plummet: I'll post some notes when I have time later.

I bought Maxwell a month after V1 was released. After following development process, I avoided it like the plague. Maxwell has been very beneficial for my work. And I look forward to the coming improvements, whatever they may be. But I understand the frustration (to put it mildly) of other users for which current problems or deficiencies are debilitating. Motivating improvements by consumer action is a very tricky process.

Back to work.
cheers.

[pluMmet]

Motivating improvements by consumer action is a very tricky process.

Back to work.
cheers.

Yes but without action it has no effect. Please be respectful of those who are effecting action.

Also if you know a better way to effect NLs action please share your thoughts when you get around to responding.

[ricardo]

Strange how nobody talks about the *on schedule* release of FryBeta1.5 and its feature list (displacement, camera shift, set of the North in the native app, etc).

Everyone seems to be so tame after the spin out of the last week.

Ah Nicole, tough job you got here...Nicole, Juan, I can't here you well...can you check the line...Nic...an, are y....re...Crrr....Pchhhitt....Tuuuuuuuutt(flatline).

O I wish a killa newsletter.

Let us get to the start of this thread. I think anyone here would agree that this is pure flame bait, and we are all here, flaming.

Discussing Fry here definitely takes no where. Will not improve NL's response. Didn't last time. It just brings some guys looking for a dog to kick like me yesterday into writing nasty words. Last hurricane season in this forum it was VRay's time. Tons of renderings and comparisons. Things improved and no one even tries to bring VRay back on topic.

Ricardo