[Hybaj]

Now let me get this clear people. Kerkythea doesn't suck and it's a great renderer. The gallery sucks for many other reasons than the renderer quality. It's the fault the users so stop acting like dumb kids. When I read these posts I seriously have the feeling that some people do 3d graphics for like 2 months and never seen a different renderer than Maxwell.

mtripoli : Do you realize that that kerkythea image was rendered with a totally different technique? And newsflash.. Kerkythea also does bipt, MLT and even dispersion. So it's really capable of producing an image that comes very close to your Maxwell version. So download kerkythea, use the right rendering/GI method and voila.. you might get suprised.

And advocating for a biased renderer. That's nonsense. If you want to have biased renderings purchase Vray. I'm pro unbias but probably against all that "physically corectness" which is alot of times heavily depends on the ability to interpret stuff written in papers. Maxwell is still so physically-correct that it suffers darkening around the edges on reflective materials (if you don't believe me just render a shiny aluminium ball in a grey cornell box. Tadaaaa. Very physically incorrect . Alot of other renderers solved that already (I counted 4)

What we need is just more tweaks and more features. But still in the unbiased range.

[KurtS]

The gallery sucks for many other reasons than the renderer quality. It's the fault the users.

really? A great render engine, but no one can really use it...?.

[mtripoli]

mtripoli : Do you realize that that kerkythea image was rendered with a totally different technique? And newsflash.. Kerkythea also does bipt, MLT and even dispersion. So it's really capable of producing an image that comes very close to your Maxwell version. So download kerkythea, use the right rendering/GI method and voila.. you might get suprised.

Nope... if I wanted to do that I could use Lightwaves renderer, which is superb if I wanted to do all that stuff. I don't have to, I have Maxwell... and btw, I've been designing/modeling/rendering for more than two months...

[Bubbaloo]

So it's really capable of producing an image that comes very close to your Maxwell version.

Well let's see it...

[JTB]

Please let me say again (I believe you don't remember what I initially asked for) what I would like to see from biased Maxwell.

The key-phrase is this... "Maxwell Rendering System" like Kerkythea rendering system.
This means NOT a biased Maxwell but biased renderings with Maxwell.
To be more clear this means
1. Only one scene setting
2. Assign materials only once.
3. Faster previews for us and the client
4. The top quality of Maxwell when producing the final images.

So, I don't understand why nobody wants to have a checkbox that says "Use xxxxxxx method"
And when we check and make sure that everything is OK, we can have the final images.

It would be the same as a Maxwell to Vray scene converter or Maxwell to scanline scene converter for fast previews.

Really I can't understand why all this !

[Hybaj]

Nope... if I wanted to do that I could use Lightwaves renderer, which is superb if I wanted to do all that stuff. I don't have to, I have Maxwell... and btw, I've been designing/modeling/rendering for more than two months...

What kind of argument is this!? Kindergarten.... hello?? So why were you doing a Maxwell render at all and didn't just use Lightwave to do the simple raytracing as was used in the original Kerkythea picture?? I'm kinda uncomfortable with people who compare raytracing VS Bidirectional path tracing. Compare Kerkythea bipt VS Maxwell bipt or Lightwave's internal raytracing with Kerkythea's raytacing.

really? A great render engine, but no one can really use it...?.

Kindergarten again. If you look in the gallery there are some pictures with bipt that pretty much reach the quality of the Maxwell renderer. Yeah you don't have the nice maxwell's tonemapping and supersampling but still it's quite close. Also now the kerkythea's interface is quite good so with some experience it's almost as easy to use as Maxwell.

The key-phrase is this... "Maxwell Rendering System" like Kerkythea rendering system.
This means NOT a biased Maxwell but biased renderings with Maxwell.

I don't know if it's me but I just don't understand what you ultimately mean under the word biased. Care to explain it??

[JTB]

I don't know if it's me but I just don't understand what you ultimately mean under the word biased. Care to explain it??

I mean that it is nice to have Maxwell as an unbiased renderer, no matter what the cost (new quads, more time etc) but we need also a biased renderer inside Maxwell. Just make faster preview images.... Just like Kerkythea's pulldown rendering menu.... not so many choises of course.

[deadalvs]

i'd rather «render» cytheria than clerky maxwell...

my input:

it was the fundamental goal and nature of maxwell to be a renderer that IS unbiased. so adding more features that dilute that idea are not a goal for the development or of the basic idea, the software was designed for.

[big K]

may i step in here.

first of all let me start with an example.
there are cars driven by electricity, there are cars driven by gasoline.
and there are hybrid cars that use the advantage of both.

as i understand next limit and all guys who want to be maxwell pure and only unbiased i also understand JTB who is thinking in terms of workflow.

IF maxwell could also do quicker approximated (i don´t call it biased) renderings (and of corse with minor quality - but still good) then you could use this feature for example:
-preview images
-when the time runs out for quicker final renderings.
and all this without changing the materials and many other settings in your 3d application.

as i have said, i understand both sides

cheers
michael

p.s. i don´t understand why to compare the renderoutput of maxwell and Kerkythea. it was only brought in as an example of a rendering system (with multiple render algorithms)

[JTB]

may i step in here.

first of all let me start with an example.
there are cars driven by electricity, there are cars driven by gasoline.
and there are hybrid cars that use the advantage of both.

as i understand next limit and all guys who want to be maxwell pure and only unbiased i also understand JTB who is thinking in terms of workflow.

IF maxwell could also do quicker approximated (i don´t call it biased) renderings (and of corse with minor quality - but still good) then you could use this feature for example:
-preview images
-when the time runs out for quicker final renderings.
and all this without changing the materials and many other settings in your 3d application.

as i have said, i understand both sides

cheers
michael

p.s. i don´t understand why to compare the renderoutput of maxwell and Kerkythea. it was only brought in as an example of a rendering system (with multiple render algorithms)

THANK YOU!!!

This is EXACTLY what I mean!!!

[mtripoli]

IF maxwell could also do quicker approximated (i don´t call it biased) renderings (and of corse with minor quality - but still good) then you could use this feature for example:
-preview images
-when the time runs out for quicker final renderings.
and all this without changing the materials and many other settings in your 3d application.

as i have said, i understand both sides

cheers
michael

p.s. i don´t understand why to compare the renderoutput of maxwell and Kerkythea. it was only brought in as an example of a rendering system (with multiple render algorithms)

Does this count as fast (10 minutes) with minor quality and didn't have to change anything other than render time (all materials, scene, etc. same as final render)?

[def4d]

number of bounces option was great

[big K]

mike,

what are you going to prove?

i don´t know what it is you are typically rendering, but i have had images that took about 24h with 8 cores and more. it think there might be a little place for some speedup if needed (for the cost of quality - and too much grain is not meant here).

i think i have read in many posts that speed improvements are a general wish. (if you are happy with the speed then this is fine)

and again i only wanted to describe JTB intention for this thread.

michael

[JTB]

A 15 years old Kerkythea user asked me to post this link here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23438809@N03/show/

Just some examples of the renders he did because he agrees with me that Kerkythea is not bad.

[Bubbaloo]

Very impressive modelling and post processing!
With a decent renderer, those would be magnificent!!