All posts related to V2
By Polyxo
#308437
Hi All,
in another thread I have already expressed my disappointment with the upgrade-pricing-system chosen.
In the attached pdf-file I made a graph with the upgrade options based on my original purchase
of three licenses. In this Graph I disregard the lower "Beta"-Pricing!
Instead I assumed to spend 50% of the cost of 3 undiscounted licenses according to "industry standards".

My expectation was to get an equivalent count of fully featured seats for that sum. I had to figure out though
that each upgrade alternative indeed gives me far less. Maybe this is interesting for other users with multiple
licenses as well... I'd love to see anybody proving me wrong though.

Holger

PDF-Download: http://senduit.com/48e28a
User avatar
By Mihai
#308493
:D

The misunderstanding is still there I think, regarding the 'free' licenses I mentioned. The old post for the 1.5 release says:
Maxwell Render 1.5 will recognise existing licenses as 4 Standard licenses
http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... =3&t=22574

1 license valid for 4 machines, was true if each machine only had 1 core. If your initial computers had dual cores or quad cores, how would the calculation end up? With quad cores your investment would be 1185, 44% of the original price, 4 years later. NL could have kept it 1 license and just say it's per machine now. But I guess you know what people would have said who already bought more than 1 license just so they could use it on more than 4 cores. So instead, your 1 license got converted to 4 full licenses. Your 3 full licenses became 12 full licenses. Plus, their value has increased, when going from cores to machine. But you disregard this as well. I think it was a pretty generous gesture, and what's more for a free update.

In addition to this:
1.5 launch promotion – 3 RenderNode licenses free
From the launch date until the end of June 2007, Maxwell Render Standard licenses will come with 3 free RenderNode licenses.
From 2005 to 2009, 4 years later, you have spent (disregarding that you bought them at half price) a total of 2685€, 1.84€/day :P But actually 0.81€/day for you. For a professional business with 12 people....

What is "fair" here seems a bit relative :)
By Polyxo
#308509
Mihai wrote:The misunderstanding is still there I think, regarding the 'free' licenses I mentioned.
Hi Mihai,
what you consider a misunderstanding are (at least in my memory) 2 separate actions which took place
at different point in time and which have nothing to do with each other.

1) the license scheme was changed from "per core" to per machine.
This took place as an adaption to hardware developments: People with quadcore-machines used up one complete
license with a single machine and kept complaining about this fact until the scheme was finally adjusted.
This had nothing to do with giving away Freebies due to endless Troubles around the V1 release.

2) Giving away free additional licenses. This happened for the above mentioned troubles in order to comfort people; these
free licenses are not part of my complaints.
Last edited by Polyxo on Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By macray
#308513
I can understand Mihai perfectly: you work for 4 years on 12 computers with maxwell and don't get the money to buy upgrades for the 12 seats? what do you charge your customers? do you spend the money on everything else than hard- and software investments?
By Polyxo
#308521
macray wrote:I can understand Mihai perfectly: you work for 4 years on 12 computers with maxwell and don't get the money to buy upgrades for the 12 seats? what do you charge your customers? do you spend the money on everything else than hard- and software investments?
This is not a matter of money but this has to do with fairness.
Next-Limit now obviously wants to sell the 1.5 license change as a favour to their customers...

Sorry, I'm not interested in discussing my Business-practices here. Please keep your assumptions on
that for yourself. Thanks.
User avatar
By Richard
#308530
Mihai wrote:a total of 2685€, 1.84€/day :P But actually 0.81€/day for you. For a professional business with 12 people....
about the cost of one Adobe Master Suite seat!!!

although this sounds cheap, I guess Mihai - one has to consider the financial hardship many have felt in the last two years and that many of the features of V2 are mostly (excepting speed, single plane SSS and layered materials) bug fixes for V1 and some I understand still exist!
By Polyxo
#308537
Richard wrote:although this sounds cheap, I guess Mihai - one has to consider the financial hardship many have felt in the last two years...
These Cost per Day calculations keep me utterly unimpressed,
they don't explain what is going on here but only distract.

No, I'm not running out of money.

I bought licenses which were suitable to run on 12 machines (in 2005).
The licensing system was changed (in 2007?) but I could still run on 12machines.

Now I want to upgrade and had to pay more than 4000€ just to keep
up what I had originally. Thats far more than double of the sum one
had to pay for 3 licenses of V1.

Does that make sense?
By Polyxo
#308547
I just found an old article on CGSociety which announces the 1.5 License change as
exactly the thing I had recalled: As a normal feature addition/adaption to hardware-developments.
http://features.cgsociety.org/story.php?story_id=4092

The license change was separate from - and not such a secret thing like the option to apply additional license.
The latter was only was announced briefly in the Forum, the rest worked via Email, remember?

Do you guys really want to pay more than neccessary?
Some people really seem so keen on trying the new Engine that they switch off their brains.
...
User avatar
By Richard
#308553
Polyxo wrote:
Richard wrote:although this sounds cheap, I guess Mihai - one has to consider the financial hardship many have felt in the last two years...
These Cost per Day calculations keep me utterly unimpressed,
they don't explain what is going on here but only distract.

No, I'm not running out of money.

I bought licenses which were suitable to run on 12 machines (in 2005).
The licensing system was changed (in 2007?) but I could still run on 12machines.

Now I want to upgrade and had to pay more than 4000€ just to keep
up what I had originally. Thats far more than double of the sum one
had to pay for 3 licenses of V1.

Does that make sense?
Yes actually it does! Hmmm?
By big K
#308560
i think i have to agree with Polyxo here.

let´s make an example:
imagine you have bought 3 standard licenses of maxwell just before the 1.5 release to get you little farm with 12 pc running (that was 3x895 = 2685)
now after the license change, which was a good thing, BUT it would have been better to change the individual license to work on 4 machines instead of trading them to 4 new ones. and everything else wouldn´t have been fair. (if you couldn´t use your 12 pc farm any more because of a license change)

now because of this you are left with 12 licenses now and upgrading them will cost you:
12x345 = 4140

the fair price would be 3x345 = 1035 still some money !

this is not really fair and leaves some bad taste.
By shen.de
#308562
big K wrote: now because of this you are left with 12 licenses now and upgrading them will cost you:
12x345 = 4140
and that's without tax ... not everyone run's a company
User avatar
By Fernando Tella
#308565
If before 1 license was good for four cores and changed to four PCs, a license now should be good for four PCs too. The trick comes when you convert cores to licenses giving 4 times less value (but the same price) to this latter licenses than to the former ones.

L = 4 x (L/4) but you are giving L/4 the same price as L

When the change was made I think we all shut the mouth as we were being gifted three extra licenses, but the value of those was divided by four and the price maintained.

My two cents
User avatar
By tanguy
#308568
I am not really agree with the arguments from Mihai...
I mean, outside of the Polyxo professional situation, whatever the numbers of people which are working with or not, the trouble is still there, the pricing is not done in regards the number of people which are exploiting the product, or we should have a case by case policy... no ?
How an update from V1 to V2 could cost 80% of the V2 itself, according the fact, there are few new features in the V2...the Ies supports, and the Single sheet SubSurface... (and this one is free with Fry...) and a couple of other, but it is not a revolution. So actually, to have the last stage of the engine and to win a increase of the speed and Ies support, we have to re-buy our production tools... That is pretty unfair, in my way of think, at least...
Even Autodesk, are not so insane in the Upgrade policy... believe me.

Tanguy,
Last edited by tanguy on Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By big K
#308569
Fernando Tella wrote:When the change was made I think we all shut the mouth
no, there was a discussion going on back then. but it was ended like we will see how the upgrade policy is going to be.

a good thing for NL would have been to make the prices available before the release and get a feedback from customers. (and i don´t mean any silly demands like a free upgrade)
changes could have been made more easy then.
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Thanks Luis, it's great to see progress with MW!

Thanks Fernando!