[Jakob Ryngen]

Thank you for all the replies! I have some comments.

ArchiCAD; my company is currently thinking of replacing AutoCAD but as has been mentioned ArchiCAD is not a modeler. It was interesting to hear that C4D does not work so well with ArchiCAD as one should imagine. ArchiCAD might still be an option for other reasons though...

Revit; not a modeler either but to my knowledge a better modeler than ArchiCAD. This program is not as developed as ArchiCAD. It is also expensive and owned by Autodesk (a company I have bad experience with). Revit seems unsupported by Maxwell. How do you manage?

Modo and FormZ sounds very interesting. But you say that FormZ is harder to learn? One thing I found good about Rhino was that it seemed very easy to learn. It is also relatively common where I come from.

3DS Max; used by everyone and really good to know but too expensive and again developed by Autodesk. I gave up Max to LW years ago for a lot of reasons and at that time the cost was about the same.

I already know and like LW. I find the modeler good enough but there are some bugs in the 9.5 version that I don't like. Setting the camera in LW and redering in Maxwell is so much better if you use background photos and clip maps. Texture exports works so and so and I prefer to use Maxwell textures. I would stick to LW if I did not have this impression that this program is going out of the market (do you have the same impression?). You also say that Modo and FormZ are better modelers as well. 3DS Max certainly isn't but Rhino is if you stick to nurbs and use AutoCAD. LW Core really sounded interesting (linux and windows in one version and a new fresh version) but the release date has been unclear for more than a year now. LWCAD sounded really good and a new version was released not so long ago.

[mgroeteke]

about 'hard to learn' or not... best is to download a demo, take a bit of time and try to do some tests - as much as possible with a 'real' project or parts of it. apart of sheer functions and specs of a software, much depends on your past workflows, your individual sense for GUI's and so on.

another tip: have a look onto the dedicated forums, to see if there is a good user/support feedback. it's worth gold if you run into modeling problems (and that will happen)...

cheers

markus

[jespi]

Hi everyone,

I've used all apps (3ds max, c4d, modo, archicad, and RHINO) you mentioned. I must agree with Joe about Archicad's feelings, I really hate archicad!. In fact, I think BIM apps are still very limited and force you to an anti creative workflow. I've finished to think that BIM is not for architects, maybe for engineers makes sense but an architect not always needs to define the complete project in 3d and BIM force you to define everything in 3d.

Also, 3d polygon apps like 3ds max, c4d, and modo are good for rendering but from my point of view not so good for modeling architecture. Subdivision force you to an specific workflow, I mean, if you have to make a hole over a surface using subD is difficult and time consuming. You can't obtain cad data from polygons apps...

So, my recommendation, use Rhino. I've been using rhino for the last 2 years and I really love it. I use it for everything, I love 2d drafting with rhino, is as fast as autocad!. For architecture, NURBS modeling is the way to go, trimming, splitting, projecting, 2d drawing from 3d models... As Joe pointed out, Rhino V5 is still in beta but is very usable and stable, and is more than 20 times faster than V4, also is 64 bits.
About rendering within Rhino, JD has developed the BEST! render plugin I've ever seen, very well integrated with rhino and with lots of tools that makes maxwell for rhino a pleasure to use.

Hope that makes sense and sorry for my limited english,

josé

[jespi]

I think this article-video worth a look. Adams O'hern is a professional industrial designer, in the next article he speak about the different 3d approachs and the pros and cons of each one of them.
http://adam.theoherns.com/2010/03/08/ch ... d-package/

josé

[Josephus Holt]

Rhino NURBS modeling allows for clean 2D geometry extraction. I export to Autocad since I've used acad for a long time. Below example is pulled from Rhino 3D model, required some cleanup, then added notes and dimensions. FYI: BIM apps require 2D cleanup too and is not as "automatic" as some promote it. Rhino allows all 2D geometry to be saved on the layer it was created, so gives flexibility to assign line types/weights very easily and quickly in Autocad. Joe

[Bubbaloo]

I don't recall giving you permission to post elevations of my home, Joe.

[Josephus Holt]

I don't recall giving you permission to post elevations of my home, Joe.

Brian, since it's your second home I figured you would not mind

[Bubbaloo]

[wagurto]

Joe nice work. I wonder if your approach to BIM using Rhino and Acad are only limited to extract usable geometry from your 3d model to be used on Cad documentation? How does it work with changes and revisions? does it keep track of you schedules? Can you references your 2d views to the whole set of plans?
Thanks

[Josephus Holt]

Joe nice work. I wonder if your approach to BIM using Rhino and Acad are only limited to extract usable geometry from your 3d model to be used on Cad documentation? How does it work with changes and revisions? does it keep track of you schedules? Can you references your 2d views to the whole set of plans?
Thanks

This approach definitely works only for extracted usable geometry from the 3d model. The workflow for me is that I obtain client design approvals based on the 3d presentations, then extract the 2d geometry for construction documents. Any changes/revisions, which should be very minor in nature after that because the client has "seen" what he/she is getting, would typically be done only to the 2d drawings where it will be faster to accomplish those anyway. However, I could just model the changes and extract just that changed part and paste into the 2d drawing, which would then require some cleanup. As a residential architect I don't use schedules like you would with commercial arch, so that is not an issue for me. There is no reference of 2d views to the whole set of plans...the 2d geometry becomes completely independent of the 3d model, which is what at this stage of BIM development I prefer anyway as it keeps the process simpler. If I was doing simpler architecture I think a BIM app would work fine, although I would I would first try out Revit or Vectorworks before going back to Archicad.

[bbuxton]

Are you using LW Cad with Lightwave?
Like Markus I use FormZ for precision work and I personally I found it easier to learn than Lightwave modeler. For visuals though, Lightwave is hard to beat

Also Bonzai v2 is cheaper & quite good - shares a lot with FormZ

I would stick with what you know -Lightwave, adding LWCad & VRoom & Kray may work for you.
Bonzai has good support for LWO format & may help you decide if FormZ is for you.

Brian

[mgroeteke]

yes, bonzai is great, but does it have already a maxwell plugin? anyway, i can recommend it as well, and the look and feel of upcoming FZ7 should be much more like bonzai: more viewport interactivity, less modal dialogs...

cheers

markus

[Jakob Ryngen]

Thanks for the replies. For me it now stands between keeping Lightwave but adding the LWCAD-plug (architectural version of LW) in or going Rhino. I already know and like LW and checking other forums it was not as "out" as I imagined. The other modelers you mentioned (with the exception of 3DS Max) might be just as good or better but it is hard to compare how they work in Maxwell with demo versions. Looking at this forum Rhino is the most popular modeler for Maxwell and probably the best supported. That it works good with AutoCAD ads a lot. Is there anything more I should know before choosing between LWCAD or Autcad? Checking TurboSquid I found 28296 objects using LW .lwo but only 3002 Rhino .3dm

[polynurb]

Checking TurboSquid I found 28296 objects using LW .lwo but only 3002 Rhino .3dm

don't worry

see this:

http://www.rhino3d.com/4/help/fileio/file_formats.htm

[Josephus Holt]

Checking TurboSquid I found 28296 objects using LW .lwo but only 3002 Rhino .3dm

As far as importing 3d models from sites like Turbosquid, the only time I've NOT been able to import one into Rhino is if the export format is only 3DS. OBJ/DWG/DXF imports all work very well. I might add something here that although Rhino is IMO the best/easiest modeler to use (for architecture), it does not excell in assembling a large scene, especially if that scene includes a lot of imported (polygonal meshes) geometry. So what I end up doing with a very large scene (I'm talking about a 700mb file) is importing my Rhino geometry into Cinema4D and putting my scene together there, and rendering out from there. Is this confusing enough??? I've searched for a long time, about 20 years now for a single app that would do it all for me, but that's just not going to happen. So far it's Autcad for 2D cad, Rhino for 3D modeling, Cinema4D for assembling large scenes, and Maxwell to render. If I did not already have some working knowledge of Cinema4D I would likely have purchased Modo (to fill in for those few things where Rhino is not so adept), or explore Maxwell Studio to assemble larger scenes there.
You mentioned in an earlier post that Archicad is not a modeler. Although not a fan (anymore) of Archicad, a significant part of the app is devoted to modeling, in fact, one of the redeeming features of Archicad is the roof tool....everyone loves it! However, as soon as you need any object that can not easily be parametrically created, you run into a virtual dinosaur.