Everything related to http://resources.maxwellrender.com
By Aji Enrico
#353990
Bubbaloo wrote:A "quantity over quality" approach is the exact opposite of what Maxwell is. :wink: :wink: :wink: and furthermore, :wink:
So you prefer inefficiency and time consuming workflows over solutions that are adequately but not the best for some tasks? :)
By Aji Enrico
#353993
Phew now I've read this topic from start to finish. Feel like I should get an achievement badge of some sort :)

Jason, this is your project and you do what you want to with it. If you can see yourself spending your time and your energy on this project you probably believe in it, right? :)
Sure if someone else does not believe in your project like you do, they can explain the issues they see to aid you. Perhaps they have a good point of view to share.
If someone is really sensitive (not my words) for this kind of projects and like to see a different outcome, they can start one of their own. Competition is always good. Because I personally believe that no one can enforce one's own ideals on someone else, no matter how right the ideals are or the good intentions.
Btw, instead of "sensitive" I guess the word "passionate" is better describing of what is really going on here.

If I have understood Jason right he is only making tools for us that can be used in production to generate money.... or art. The tools are perhaps not the best out there but they sure serve us a purpose to handle some tasks very well. The constraints Jason is bound by has made him to come up with a solution that he has presented. A semi/full automated material generation based on Arroway textures and Arroway available instructions & information to produce adequately results quickly while abiding to the constraints and ensure the level of end results he has aimed for.

...You can say that again :) That was a mouth full indeed.
If I've misunderstood parts of your intentions, tasks and challenges Jason, please forgive me.

I can see and understand those that have push Maxwell further in the past and are still pushing it today, that they want to keep contributing to their best of abilities. It will benefit us all when Maxwell as a tool, which it is, gets continuously better for us all to use.
Seeing one's precious work go a different path than one has had in mind can be somewhat daunting. Additionally and opposite to that when one sees a particular issue as an obvious problem, maybe someone else does not see that or perhaps one sees opportunity instead. Those things can lead to frustration and a lot of it. Marriage anyone? :)

I have myself personally made some tools available by requests from the community (because I love you guys in secret ;) ) to make Maxwell a better place... well I bit better I hope.
In the end, even though everyone here shares the same goal, they strive passionately perhaps with different approaches in mind.



Well after this massive wall of text (sorry)... what is my wish here then? I wish that we all could see the possibilities this project brings, that I believe are.
Some of the community will use this with Maxwell professionally, that finds these tools adequately or perhaps perfect for their job at hand.
Some of the community will use these tools as a base for own material creation, having something to start with is usually better than nothing at all. Think of it as like a harem of sexy templates for material creation.
And finally some of the community, and these folks are the most important one's in my belief, some community members will use these material as a base of learning Maxwell. Although Maxwell is easy as taking a photo.... knowing physics isn't all that easy. By seeing some patterns in these materials these new Maxwellians will have a stepping stone towards professional usage. They will see a pattern of how they can as a starting guide create material, experiment some and come up with own ideas. Perhaps share some good ones like a community we all want, like a boss. Even before they know what index of refraction is or the string theory and Higgs hidden purse are.
They will become one of us mohahaha! *evil laugh* :D

I hope I brought down the tension and leveled up the mutual understanding.
User avatar
By Half Life
#353996
No sorry Aji, I meant I was out of the office for the night -- "out" to try to have some fun with my wife and forget about this endless/stupid/exhausting conversation.

I'm done with this thread, I've got other tasks to deal with and I really see no point. Anybody else is of course free to pursue the topic until they are satisfied but it will have to be without me.

Best,
Jason.
By numerobis
#354003
zdeno wrote: but the most wise words said someone else :)
David Solito wrote:Question (perhaps out of the purpose): why users have the same and same question over years (caustics throw dielectrics, arroway conversion, liquid in glass, etc) and not being explained by NL simply or schematically on a FAQ?
so , +1
yes... that's the point for me too.
I understand that there "can" be different approaches for the same material, but since NL has invented this material system and has spent a long time testing and tweaking the settings there must be a "best" way to use this system for different tasks and there must be knowledge for instance if, how and when to use additive blending mode to not generate additional noise...
So where is the statement of NL or the inventors/testers of this material system concerning this topic? Yes, it's true, if these materials will become available, then they will be used by a wide base of inexperienced maxwell users to understand the material system, because there are not many "official" templates that can be studied instead. So i think if some of "the knowing" spot any problems in this method or have the ultimate solution how it should work, then this would be the right moment to reveal it.

I'm not sure if Jason's approach works and if so many different versions of one material are really needed (i think one mxm would be enough - an automated texture import to sketchup could do the rest, but this would be a plugin question ;) ) but i think it's a huge contribution to the community that he started to make it - and this thread could become one of the most interesting of the last years...

And the other question for me is, when it is so easy to code a python script to automate the process, why is it so difficult to release a script that automates the process of replacing textures in a material?!? ...or make a flexible/configurable wizard material?
By Aji Enrico
#354007
Bubbaloo wrote:
Aji Enrico wrote:
So you prefer inefficiency and time consuming workflows over solutions that are adequately but not the best for some tasks? :)
Oh yes, definitely! What artist here strives for "adequate" work?
Those that think of cost/benefit ratio ;)
Not everyone uses Maxwell for the same purpose, some (me included) that I know only can do fun and "perfect" artistic work on their free time while at work only up to the level of "adequately" because of time and cost constraints at work. Wish it didn't had to be like this but that is the situation for most of who I know. Man I would love to have a job where perfection was the constraint regardless of time :D
Half Life wrote:No sorry Aji, I meant I was out of the office for the night -- "out" to try to have some fun with my wife and forget about this endless/stupid/exhausting conversation.

I'm done with this thread, I've got other tasks to deal with and I really see no point. Anybody else is of course free to pursue the topic until they are satisfied but it will have to be without me.

Best,
Jason.
Hope you two did have some good time and leaved these issues behind. :)
I'm sorry to hear that you are leaving this project behind. I posted on this thread because I was hoping that we could combine our projects if perhaps they could share a common goal. Let me know if you change your mind.
By Ha_Loe
#354011
I feel like I need to give the whole premade/automated/versions business another view.

Now, I know most of you here are artists and creators with an eye for detail. I'm a student in architecture operating on a deadline and need to get the images set fast. I hate the typical flat, abstract architectural style, still I cannot afford to paint my textures to every last detail. I need be able to swap materials in no time and still want them to look kind of convincing. I just don't have the time to tweak each material in the best possible way, only to decide, I'd rather use a finer grain of wood and start all over again.

I need to drop them on and have them in a realistic scale. One, because I don't have the time to do extensive UV mapping and two, because a straight away RealScale arroway texture still looks better than ArchiCAD default 1x1m tiles.

While Maxwell takes its time to render, the amount of time spent to set up a scene is the strongest argument here. Render times can be outsourced to nighttimes or renderfarms.

Having multiple resolutions pre made is also pretty good thing. Arroways full rez may take ages to load and basically just eat memory while I'm working on the geometry. Still I may need to be able to preview the model at various stages with light and materials... So with like 20 Mats, I surely could edit each to use the other textures for the final render, or I could just swap out material versions.

This would be no big issue if all paths would be truly relative, because then I could just swap the textures and have only one material. I mean, why even store the file extension. Different extensions in the same folder typically only point at different levels of quality. So without the extension stored i could use a small JPG for preview and a large PNG for finals just by swapping files. But right now Maxwell pops up for a material from the resources with the full path, the original creator used even after I already tried and fixed the paths.

Arroways textures were created with a cerain render engine in mind and that's where they get their values from. So there is a system behind those values. Trying to adapt this system for Maxwell is a totally valid approach to me. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be great if someone took the time to squeeze out every last detail. But saying Jasons idea was invalid, because it doesn't produce the very top notch in quality is like saying bump mapping was a totally bullshit approach because displacement produces more convincing results.
User avatar
By RobMitchell
#354017
And you don't want to make him get nasty, Rusty. ;)

I don't really see the issue with people pointing out flaws in the system you're going with. Afterall, the Next Limit team are going to want to show their product in the best possible light from all outlets and if this isn't showing that, they're bound to bring it up. I thought Bubbaloo had a good idea of at least getting individual categories correct - taking on too much work can really put a negative slide on the final results.
User avatar
By Half Life
#354020
Oh for crying out loud Brian, you I have to take seriously because I respect you so much...

Look it's like this, does anybody really believe this is sound advice??? :? :? :?
Mihai wrote:Instead I would use a coating and control the reflections with both a map and the nd (I would still get strong reflections at the 90 degree viewing angle). With coatings I can also play with coloration effects for old laquered look.
Image

I mean forget the Next Limit affiliation, if that came out of the mouth any regular user we would laugh them out of here -- it a rediculous assertion (to say the least) that he can get better results using that strategy than what I am getting... this is the origin to all of this mess.

Furthermore I did not ask for any input here -- I wasn't looking for suggestions. I already have several sets done and I'm not worried in the least about the quality, which I and others have already tested... the only mistake I made here was taking the whole thing seriously.

I've said it like a hundred times -- make your own, knock yourself out... however I'm doing my thing, my way, and if you don't like it -- tough nooggies :D

Best,
Jason.
By philip99
#354031
thaaaanks to Jason, for this 2 materials, I am using in the center of gold bands
which one would you say looks better left or right ? please.. I can't decide
-Philip


Image
Sketchup 2025 Released

Thank you Fernando!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hwol[…]

I've noticed that "export all" creates l[…]

hmmm can you elaborate a bit about the the use of […]

render engines and Maxwell

Funny, I think, that when I check CG sites they ar[…]