[Polyxo]

Personally, I don't like the added cavity map. It forces shaded areas to be too defined, unnaturally. Really, if there is a cavity, Maxwell will take care of the shading. Enhancements like cavity/AO tend to look better in biased render engines that need shading/lighting help. I like some of your previous experiments where an AO map is used as a mask/layer for tarnish effects in the cavities of metals. These cavities on this sculpture would in reality be hard to polish, so it would be cool to see the map used as a masked layer for a little extra roughness.

It's not only about different degrees of polish here. Every Statue (especially when standing outside) will over time collect dirt in cavities.
These are really darker not only more dull - so mere adjusting of Roughness wasn't enough.

[zdeno]

It's just my opinion on this one test. I like seeing all of the things you come up with, hit or miss.

oh this one is a real HIT !
Maximus it looks great!

[Maximus3D]

Bubba: I can see what you're trying to say, obviously you consider these tests a failure. How about you show me how you would recreate this in Maxwell without using a cavity and/or AO maps, if you manage to pull that off then i will give you a goldstar.

Polyxo: That's right, i guess Bubba gives this thumbsdown because he see no use of such a function in Maxwell for archviz rendering where everything should be superclean and perfectly shiny.

zdeno: Thanks.. next time i will try to render cleaner models.

/ Max

[Bubbaloo]

Ok, no more opinions from me then. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's sensitive little feelings. I'll step aside now and let the unbridled praise flow forth unobstructed. I just wonder why you are posting these tests if you can't handle criticism and constructive comments.

[Maximus3D]

Alright sir Bubba, then we have a deal. I will stop posting my silly tests so we will not have these stupid arguments anymore.

Thread closed.

/ Max

[kami]

oh please ...
I think those discussions could lead to some better understands and hopefully to an improvement of maxwell render.
I can see the point of Bubba, that Maxwell handles shading in edges extremely well, which is correct.
but as mentionned by polyxo: the effect of dust and different degrees of polish aren't managable

So I'd really, really like to see and ambient occlusion-like effect in maxwell.
and use it sometimes to get this extra dirt around corners and maybe even to overemphasize some effects. (it's not ALL about realistic images ...)

btw: absolutely gread renderings max. the cavitymap on some renderings is a great improvement, but on some (eg. the first one) it looks a bit artificial.

[Frances]

...the cavitymap on some renderings is a great improvement, but on some (eg. the first one) it looks a bit artificial.

I could be wrong, but I think the first one is just a scanline to show the details of the map itself?

[Hervé]

from my hyper humble pov.. what's missing are some dirt from dripping water... maybe.. maybe the cav map you added is a bit strong..? no idea.. just brain winding..

I am sayin that because here in Lux, they just ship their national emblem to the next World fair in Asia.. so it was a big deal here.. and they showed many photos..
Max, that stuff is on a high column.. under hard weather conditions, lotsa rain... last time it was cleaned was 3 years ago !.. I don't see so much dirt.. subtelty is the key I think..

don't bite, just trying to help...

[Polyxo]

Max, that stuff is on a high column.. under hard weather conditions, lotsa rain... last time it was cleaned was 3 years ago !.. I don't see so much dirt.. subtelty is the key I think..

Seems to depend...

[Hervé]

yes but this is copper... I thought he wanted to do some gold stuff.. ah well.. but if it's supposed to be old copper.. then it needs that special green... + dripping marks.. no..?

[Maximus3D]

kami: It's unlikely it would lead to improvements. All they want is supershiny new looking surfaces because that's what a majority of Maxwell's userbase renders. Less than a handfull of us render dirty stuff. Ofcourse these examples i posted were neither accurate recreations of real life weathering nor were they superserious, they were simply quick renders to demonstrate the effectivness of using a cavitymap (or AO) to boost the realism of certain specific types of surfaces. I could do a serious attempt at this again when i have more time to spend on it in a couple of weeks.

Frances: The first two images are simply screenshots from Zbrush of the realtime preview so you were partially correct.

Hervé: Technically drips of oxide are missing but that was not the point of my examples posted. It was simply as i wrote above to demonstrate the power and usefulness of the cavitymap from Zbrush. Which is also the reason why it's overdone, the effects are stronger than what would be natural just for the effect to be easier to see for normal humans.
I see the large image you included Hervé, however there are more variables than those you mentioned that affects the weathering of a statue outdoors. You got humidity, rain ofcourse as you mentioned, snow, acidity of water, treatment of metal surface, pollution and more..
Don't bite ?

Naturally it depends on what the figure is made of, all of them reacts differently when exposed to air and other natural/unnatural phenomenas and sure i could recreate all of them if i wanted to but for my tests on the previous page i didn't do it as i said several times over. Too bad not everyone bother to actually read what i say but instead jump to conclusions based upon poor guesses.

Some real world examples of what happens to various surfaces outdoors when exposed to Mother Nature.




If Maxwell is all about simulating the real world with lighting, materials and all that then i believe this is a important part of the real world.

/ Max

[Bubbaloo]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

It's unlikely it would lead to improvements. All they want is supershiny new looking surfaces because that's what a majority of Maxwell's userbase renders. Less than a handfull of us render dirty stuff.

[zdeno]

oh please ...
I think those discussions could lead to some better understands and hopefully to an improvement of maxwell render.

saddly there is no chance

........ When you shoot it under wish list it's welcome. When you shoot it as a question and pissed off with the available workaround, watching others pollute the pages with engine wars is not a good idea. Let's analytically examine how such a question arise and mutate into a discussion:

1) Can I do X with Maxwell?
2) When will I be able to do X with Maxwell?
3) Why don't Maxwell have X?
4) It's a shame Maxwell doesn't have X, why didn't/don't/won't you do it?

"1" asks for technical support,
"2" asks for a new feature (a wish),
"3" is a curiosity/judgement,
"4" is a conclusion/pressure.

1 and 2 have their own sections and corresponding answers.
3 and 4 are open to discussion. It's like questioning why the weather is sunny today...

If you want something put it in wish list and pray.
It is welcome to give a free ideas , but it is not polite to criticise or ask stupid questions.

There should be procedurals (as dirt, AO, Noise etc.) long time ago. user will have CHOICE. There were few voices for dirt maps , or AO solutions but they are shirinking as count of WIPs and gallery renders.

There were times when in maxwell was very usefull cosinus map to render but it gone and I have not it with 1.7.1 so I have to use scanline render to get something like falloff map. (so funny)

Maximus3D tests are great , it is sad this thread is locked from 2 days
Bubbaloo have to cut Maximus3d's wing because he has it in his NDA when started to be betatester - of course I am .. kidding

[Richard]

I've got to jump in here!

My honest view has always been that people don't post to forum threads unless they care! And in a world where time is money and not much of it, they care a lot!!!

@ Max, mate amazing examples though yes in some cases it may need to be tunned down just a tad, I'm sure in the case of copper (or anything else with a lazy polisher) it may well need the opposite!

[kami]

well there's been a lot of new channels in 2.0
(shadow, fresnel, roughness, etc.)
so hopefully anytime soon, this list be expanded by an ambient occlusion channel (which isn't a very complicated wish)

I personally would use it a lot. I once did in my old C4d/maxwell times, and I think it was a good move which did not make the rendering look "artificial" or wrong.:
http://deiters.ch/renderings/950/sik_02.jpg
It was a C4D-AmbientOcclusion pass combined with a Maxwell Render,

sadly while working with rhino now, I don't have this option anymore.