[wiz]

Are there any plans to make the maxwell materials editable in the max editor? It is SUCH a pain to deal with the material editor through max! Why when you create a new material, then click on edit material, it does nothing? You have to save it, then edit it. The workflow is like pulling teeth. This thing doesn't work like a finished product should work.

Let's compare:

(Any other engine)
1. open material editor.
2. click material slot.
3. tweak settings and see results in slot.

(Maxwell)
1. open material editor.
2. click material slot.
3. change to maxwell material.
4. create maxwell material.
5. name material mxm file.
6. wait 5 seconds for the material editor to open
7. tweak settings.
8. refresh preview (wait 10 seconds or more depending on quality)
9. save material (again!)
10. close editor

So, 3 steps vs. 10. How on earth are you supposed to use this thing for production. I don't care if it renders the most realistic images on earth, if I can't efficiently work with it, it's useless.

NL, come on, every other engine has figured out how to interface with max's material editor, why can't you? Is this planned? Also, why don't we ever hear from NL on this forum? Do they ever look here?

[firebird]

yep this are the two sides of the medal! you just can´t have the most realistic images, depending on real physics and exspect to have materials previewed in no time! physic is a pretty complex thing and you have to respect the limits that are set to todays hardware!

render engines like, mental ray or the C4D implemented one, these ones call I useless for my work.

so why do people always start complaining about things, they don´t quite undestand (sorry that I´m a bit rude)!

I like the maxwell render engine alot and believe that kind of engines to be the future, but still there is a very long way to go!

[misterasset]

Forgive me, but I don't accept your premise...

(Any other engine)
1. open material editor
2. click material slot
3. change to material (vray, architectural, standard, etc...)
4. tweak material settings
5. view in fake enviorment that takes 10 seconds to update each change
6. apply to scene
7. spend hours tweaking light to make the materials look like they did in the fake preview scene

(Maxwell)
all your steps are valid...
11. go watch a movie, or workout, or play games, or cook, or anything else for hours because you're done!

Okay, 7 steps versus 11 steps plus free time. I'll take Maxwell anyday.

[Frances]

I agree that it would be nice to have materials be fully editable directly from the max editor. I also do not find creating good Maxwell materials to be very easy at first.

However you've skipped over several steps in your scenario of material creation for any other engine. Max and third party developers, such as Chaos, provide engine-specific material models that are meant to improve performance.

If you are using Max Standard or Architectural materials, you will need to tweak supersampling to avoid jagged reflections and moire patterns. You also probably need to damp down material reflectance either with bitmap properties or the Advanced Material Override (which is integrated with the Arch Mat). The Vray materials have their own set of tweaks. Tweaks are important. Tweaks are necessary if you really want a good render, no matter what engine you are using. And do I need to go into the spanner-in-the-works that is Vray Glossy Refraction? It's good, I love it, but it comes at a hefty price. Most things that are really good are just not easy.

So, don't over-simplify the workflows of the other engines, just because you are accustomed to them. And don't villify Maxwell materials just because they come with their own set of baggage.

[wiz]

I understand all of your points. I do agree that maxwell has supierior quality to other engines. You cannot, however, convince me that the maxwell workflow via max is anywhere near as easy as other engines. It acts like a hack rather than a professional engine.

I'd rather it be a close represntation of the material in the ME slot than a perfect representation on a sphere. I work in the arch viz world, and I don't remember the last sphere I had in my scene. I know you can use custom objects in the mat preview.

My main gripe is having to use 2 material editors in max. That just can not be efficient. I'm also, not downplaying maxwell. I just want it to improve. If it worked better, more fluidly, I'd switch to using it full time (where time allows) in a heartbeat. I'm not making these points to complain, I'm hoping that it will change, because I'd really like to use it more!

I'm working with maxwell a lot on my own time trying to learn it, and I have to say, it's not as easy as some have made it seem. Yes, you can dump in a model and render it, and it comes out pretty nice, but to get images like you guys are getting takes a lot more tweaking.

All engines take tweaking (like frances said!), so they're all beasts to master. I just want maxwell to be a little more "polished" in terms of workflow. Is that so much to ask?

[Frances]

I see what one of the problems is. The Edit Material option is only germane if there is an existing .mxm to edit. If the edit box shows only ".mxm" then there is no file yet to edit. You must either click "Choose MXM Material" or "Create new MXM Material."

I will add that the Create button could be made unnecessary if the Edit button would simply open Mxed with an untitled blank material when it finds no valid pathname.

[j_man]

I don't agree all at wiz. Once my scene is set up, I can adjust the materials and lighting in my scene without even opening max.

Max's material editor is incapable of handling the full spectral data that maxwell needs (or even floating point that other renderers prefer!), and it was designed 10 years ago for Max1 and sorely needs a shake around.

The maxwell ME is the best part about working with Maxwell.

...I will add that the Create button could be made unnecessary if the Edit button would simply open Mxed with an untitled blank material when it finds no valid pathname.

I agree!

Josh.

[x_site]

ok but at least fix the crashes... whenever i open material editor in max... BANG here goes again.

[jespi]

Full agree with j_man. To me the maxwell material editor is perfect.

[wiz]

I actually agree that the settings and flexibility of the ME is far superior to the max ME. I also agree that the max ME is outdated, actually, I think that max itself is outdated. The latest releases have yeilded a few nice tools, but really no major revamps. I doubt that they're even planning any major revamps.

I would just be happy if you could edit the parameters in the max ME, then use the MR ME to preview the material. For example, edit settings in max ME, then hit refresh preview, that would run the MR ME to get the preview, save the image and use that image in the max ME? I understand max's ME can't render the objects correctly, but a translation would be fine.

Maybe it's just my setup, but when I edit the mat through max, the MR ME takes a second to open (second or two), and max appears to want to crash. I'm using a dual xeon 3.6ghz w/ 4GB ram, so I don't think it's a matter of my machine not being able to handle it. It just seems buggy. That is what causes my frustration. It's not smooth.

Again, I only want maxwell to get better, so I can use it more efficently.

[wiz]

Last thing. Why, when you click "choose material" from the max ME, doesn't it open the Maxwell Material Browser? That would make perfect sense!

OR, the ability to drag and drop from the mat browser into the max ME.

[j_man]

yes it nees s little tweaking, as francis pointed out we don't really nned all them buttons!

J.

[Xlars]

I see what one of the problems is. The Edit Material option is only germane if there is an existing .mxm to edit. If the edit box shows only ".mxm" then there is no file yet to edit. You must either click "Choose MXM Material" or "Create new MXM Material."

I will add that the Create button could be made unnecessary if the Edit button would simply open Mxed with an untitled blank material when it finds no valid pathname.

Exately !

[wiz]

One more thing that gets me, and another argument for the Max ME, is the ability to view the mat image in the viewport. I know you can "force" this, but it should be as easy as it is in other engines. i.e. click the little box for "display map in viewport" done. That would make me super happy!

[Frances]

Last thing. Why, when you click "choose material" from the max ME, doesn't it open the Maxwell Material Browser? That would make perfect sense!

OR, the ability to drag and drop from the mat browser into the max ME.

That is a good idea.

Dragging and dropping anything into the Max ME is a bad idea. Max has a lot of display issues and the ME is particularly wobbly.