[fv]

Hi, I am using Sketchup and Modo at the moment.

I am beginning to understand I have to anticipate the time after Sketchup. After Google bought it its left without much further development and is probably on its way downhill.
Is there anyone here who could give me some direction as to look for in combination with Maxwell on OSX. Modo does not combine well yet and is also not a typical archviz modeler. WHat do most people here use for archviz and how well does the 3D modeling integrate into the design proces with instances and components, symbols or blocks. Arch viz is not just presentation but also very much a prototype tool during design.
Francois

[zak]

Hi Fv

Give FormZ a try, the best and most precis on the marked !

zak

[Bubbaloo]

Hi,
I use AutoCAD Architecture for creating models for construction document use. At first I tried to use these models for rendering too. Then I found I needed more control over the fine details in renderings like chamfered edges, subobject manipulation, uvunwrapping, etc. So I have made it a point to keep the Autocad models out of the renders. I use Max to model everything now. I have yet to find an "all in one" program for modelling architecture for construction documents and rendering. Even Revit falls short in my opinion.

Just find a good 3d modeller like Max or C4D or similar that has a good Maxwell plugin.

[lllab]

rhino3d

cheers
stefan

[lebbeus]

I second Rhino for modeling as well, though the texture controls aren't so great

[Josephus Holt]

I'm an architect and have have personally used FormZ, Archicad, and C4D. I was first using FormZ for archviz and Autocad for 2D documentation hoping that FormZ would incorporate a better/faster rendering engine. I/we had a lot of problems with FormZ crashing, more than any other program we used. Got to be really exasperating trying to meet a deadline, working late into the night, only to have it crash time and time again. The crashing with the lack of an acceptable rendering engine (during Maxwell beta release) made me decide to sell my FZ licenses and switch to Archicad and C4D. I still think FormZ has a lot going for it, but when I saw that the upcoming (v6.0) release would be geared to animation and not architecture, I really felt like the development team had us architects on the back burner. I was told that significant architectural tool enhancements such as parametric modeling tools were planned for, but now even a couple of years later there is no sign of that...only Bonzai, which is will compete directly with Sketchup. BTW, I think that will be one to put at the top of my list to consider (going into beta very soon). It will NOT have parametric modeling tools, but if it works like SU with many of the additional advanced modeling and UV tools of FZ, then it becomes a more viable option.

After using Archicad for a couple of years I find it to be an incomplete program, and very complicated to understand. Like Revit (from what I've heard and read), it lacks some really necessary 3D tools like one to create non-horizontal plane 3D objects, you have to use a plug-in which works somewhat. The real downside of the 3D Profiler plugin is that when you then go to the 2D views as the program is supposed to be an all-in-one solution, the hidden line functions do not work well at all with all the plug-in created geometry. You can bring in 3D objects from Cinema4D (or other 3D programs), but again the 2D representation is worthless. So in my opinion, Archicad falls short and is an incomplete architectural solution...close, but no cigar as they say.

I'm using C4D now more and more when I want to do a rendering. The Maxwell plugin works great and is easy to use. Like Bubbaloo I'm moving away from importing 3D geometry as it comes in triangulated and connected to other objects. I can spend hours cleaning it all up and then still not have a clean model. So still learning to model in C4D which I'm starting to get more comfortable with. Although you can be just as accurate as a CAD program or FZ, it's a tad more convoluted to get there. Other than that, it is very stable (key point for me) and can do anything I want to model. The program comes with Bodypaint in the basic version, which will be a great feature to "dirty up" and paint parts of the model.

In conclusion, I would wait until Autodessys (FormZ) Bonzai comes out and see if that might now work for you. I would, but still you're looking at
using Bonzai (if you go that way) for 3D prelim design, then using as a ref exporting to a 2D program like Autocad LT or ??, and then going back to your Bonzai model to enhance for final rendering, assuming that Maxwell will be doing a plugin for that too. All that might take you into the middle of next year, so if you need something right now, C4D is well worth looking at. By the way, great forum support for C4D which is REALLY a huge asset.

[mgroeteke]

using formz here since version 1.05 and i didn't find anything better for architectural and industrial modeling until now.

markus

[kami]

I'd have suggested Rhino as well, but since you write about OS X, then FormZ would be a good alternative.
- kami

[desclarke]

Using FormZ for a long time. Using C4D for a shorter time. Have used Archicad, Acad, Vectorworks, Microstation in the past. Keep going back to FormZ, and it is not unstable as some people think, excellent all round 3d package, perfect for Architectural modelling...

D

[Peder]

I am also using FZ and find it to be a very powerful program. I will say that Ive had crashes -mostly on the PC side. There are a few issues that I suspect cause crashing in FZ:
Installing the program with Virus protection turned on
Importing large amounts of cad data from Autocad
Open GL related crashing with some combinations of Graphics cards and drivers.
Setting the preference setting to previous session.

Ive recently switched to the mac and it seems more stable for me now.

I find the tool works nicely with the way my mind is set up. Keep missing functions in it when fiddling with other apps.

I hope they bring the interface up to date soon though as it needs more koolness and user friendliness.

Peder

[Josephus Holt]

Using FormZ for a long time. and it is not unstable as some people think, excellent all round 3d package, perfect for Architectural modelling...

D

Des, I agree with your assessment of FZ...it was really a hard decision to jump ship as I shared in that peculiar affection for that program, and if FZ and/or Bonzai ever comes out with parametric modeling tools such as the Archicad roof tool, there is a good chance I'll get back on board. So far I've not regretted switching Regarding our experience with the instability of FZ v5, I was expressing our experience, not an opinion. We never could figure out what caused it...it was completely random on both our machines and much too frequent to be acceptable. It was likely due to improper user input, but the same users never had such issues with other programs.

[deflix]

as mentioned before I strongly advise you against autodesk software.
formz, and C4d are a great bet from what ive heard - possibly C4d better for learning curve - in opposition to max C4d uses philosophy 'less is more' so you wont have half a billion sliders to control a light!

[KurtS]

for architectural stuff: just be sure to select a package that handles nurbs.

[JTB]

My experience is very small but I have to say this...

I don't have the luxury of making my projects twice, I can't understand what you do for this.... If I design a building I have to produce my plans for our public service, I have to make the final construction details, and I have to make the 3d model for my client if he's an engineer or for the owner of the house.... That said, and having used AutoCAD for some years my only choise was Revit.... The title of the thread sais "modeler for arch viz" so I guess Rhino and C4d are not 100% architectural modelers. Revit is and makes also nice 2d drawings.
I am not very happy with Autodesk products but for Greece, it is 98% the only choise to communicate with others...
I guess C4d and formZ are great for general 3d models but when making building models the changes can be so many that only a specialized program can make the job easily and quickly (at least for my deadlines).

Revit 2009 has a basic Mental Ray release (the worst ever) but it can make acceptable images. Because Autodesk wants us to buy Max, there is no Obj file support, no 3dm file support, just a FBX file only for Max2009!
This sucks... However, I believe that everything else would make it harder to combine 2d drawings and 3d model.

[fv]

Thanks so far for the elaborated advise.
I am afraid its what I expected. There is no really good architectural modeller around for OSX.

If you do not curve much I would say Sketchup is the best so-far, it imports into Vectorworks for further analyses in 2D.

I also have a colleague who started to use Modo and has made some impressive curved models. I think if you use Modo daily you could make practically anything with it. But Modo models are apart from archviz useless while Sketchup models are easily handed out to other partners and also easy to read as far as dimensions are concerned. Sketchup is very limiting of course once you start liking Zaha Hadid's work or Gehry's as an example. In main stream architecture though Sketchup works just fine and fast. The plugin for Maxwell is not perfect but it gets the job done in most cases. Although its not reliable. You have to always add 30% time trouble shooting to any jobs if not more.

C4D is used by some modellers I know very well with success and enthusiasm but not as a modeller. In combination with Vectorworks it seems to do very well, not perfect though.

I think I will never see a great architectural modeller in my lifetime. Somehow the development always stalls after some years. It's really a pity the force behind Sketchup has dried up. That was a start of something revolutionary.

As I am using OSX on a Mac with Modo,Vectorworks, Sketchup and Maxwell I think hoping for a better integrated architectural solution is not to be expected anytime soon. Maybe Vectorworks catches up but it has the worst render solution I have ever seen in an architectural app.

Hope some others have more to say about this. Maybe some developments might come from Asia, I can hardly imagine they will not see the oportunity for much longer. I wonder even what architects and draftsman use in Japan and China. In South East Asia its mostly hacked Autocad and 3Dmax and .......photoshop ...lol.