[Mihai]

He's going to the basement because his wife got tired of seeing half empty (full?) glasses of wine all over the house

Hervé, you're right but I suppose we're always dealing with approximations, and having a fairly accurate scene based on controlled reality is better than just having a 3D scene and comparing that with chaaaooss.

[Mihai]

It's great what you're doing Thomas, I'll also render your scene with mental ray and l_glass for comparison. This will be very interesting

We are such geeks aren't we?

[Thomas An.]

It's great what you're doing Thomas, I'll also render your scene with mental ray and l_glass for comparison. This will be very interesting

We are such geeks aren't we?

[Hervé]

wow, I did not know you would also model the environment... cool Job you're doing here...

you know I thought about taking a real "fake" glass... I have seen one in a decoration store that was VERY big (for decor purposes I am sure) like 3 feet high and 1" thick... but it was expensive... too bad.. I am sure it would have been better for seeing exactly what is going on...

... I am sure you already figure out everything... math boy ! he he

keep posting your results... really thanks !

ok, I am just watching now..

[Kabe]

forgive my ignorance , but isnt that going to be solved once we have sss and tranlucent materials. Then just define a liquid.

No. In fact these problems have nearly no connection.

Translucency is mostly about *diffuse*, while refraction is about *directional* light propagation.

Kabe

[Thomas An.]

Model is ready.

Now I got to sleep... (stupid habits of mine )

[rivoli]

Rivoli, you are constantly referring to the "hybrid's one" as opposed to the "Mihais's one".

okay, i'm sorry kabe for the confusion i made, i didn't mean to mess up stuff and names but i posted those at late night and just thought everyone would understand me. my mistake.

as thomas said "hybrid" refers to a glass made of three surfaces (meshes): one for the glass, one for the water top and another one for the inner part of the glass, where glass and water meet. hybrid is the IOR of this third mesh, which is not 1,33 (as in mihai glass model) but n glass/n water (say 1,56/1,33 = IOR of this third surface 1,17).
something like this:


when i refer to mihai's glass of wine i mean the one first posted here:

http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2615

(the one marked as correct)

If you are referring to Thomas An.'s setup, then I would appreciate if you name it so.

no, i wasn't referring to thomas' model previusly posted in this same thread. only because i didn't have time to try it out as yet.

Yeah, I think rivoli it's best if you just say Thomas method ok I just simply verified what he already rendered himself and following the logic and his previous tests with the membranes it's clear that his method works.

okay, i will stick to it, i was just trying to see if the hybrid IOR method would look good in terms of refractions. but i think we just need a real life reference to clear things up a bit.

I have setup an experiment scene in my basement. All dimensions of that setup are being measured (including location of camera and the emitters) and a 3d model is being built.

that's great thomas, i'm really curious to see the results.

[tom]

all these naming discussions are crap and we know what we are talking about,
this thread shouldn't be bugged this way, what a pity...

[Thomas An.]

Rivoli,

Again thank you for sending me your glass model earlier.
I did the test using your technique (with the hybrid-ND) but the result was not similar to yours.

I suspect your liquid was made very dark to compensate for the caustic ?


In any case, since we have no reference this is now not important and it will be superseded by the new upcoming test.

However, I can tell with certainty that the refraction is not correct. As I see in the (upcoming) real-life photo the rectangular block on the right is actually seen on the left side through the physical glass+liquid setup.

[rivoli]

I suspect your liquid was made very dark to compensate for the caustic ?

um, well yes it was darker than yours. i didn't think about it before but of course it must be like that, if i'd used a lighter red liquid i would have got the same srtong caustics as in this image you posted.

However, I can tell with certainty that the refraction is not correct. As I see in the (upcoming) real-life photo the rectangular block on the right is actually seen on the left side through the physical glass+liquid setup.

okay, that's fair enough. i suspect that even with a non hybrid IOR, refraction won't be correct anyway. even with 1,33 IOR i couldn't get the block to refract on the left side of the glass.
can't wait to see what's coming out of your basement anyway. please keep us posted.

[tom]

What is so wrong about this, Tom? Everybody understood and said OK, plus adding an explanation how it was meant. So what is your problem now? Shouldn´t we go back to topic?

sorry man, i'm not enough capable to understand your reasons, we were already at the topic once and was going all right. get outta topic when you want... and get back again.. huh .. cool commander.

[Mihai]

I still wonder about one thing regarding your method Thomas. I recall tom did some tests a while ago, with I think it was a dielectric inside a dielectric, like in your method, and the one inside didn't have any reflections at all.....I think that's what the problem was.....maybe tom can recap what it was about.

[tom]

exactly mihai
but i think thomas wanted to use this as an advantage very clever...
because we don't want reflections between glass and liquid, do we?

[Mihai]

Yes, which makes me wonder why there are no reflections (in reality) between the glass and liquid? If someone could explain that to me please

Tom, have you tried in that test you did, to actually give the outer sphere a thickness, like a thin shell? Then put the other dielectric sphere inside it. I think then you should get reflections on the inner sphere.

[tom]

maybe there should be reflections between them also and maybe it's not so clear due to close refraction indexes... i don't know exactly.

and yes i've tried what you say and it catches reflections when modeled like the way you say.