[MetinSeven_com]

Ok, but this goes for any renderer. V-Ray also becomes considerably slower when rendering a closed interior, because of the many light bounces that need to be computed. That's just the way it works.

[trick]

In ANY renderer I do interior scenes under 10 min/frame(PAL, 3GHz single proc, precalculated GI, >300K poly). An acceptable frame (no glass) in Maxwell takes at least 4 Hours if lighting is evenly distributed, and at least 12 hours if there are dark areas. Just a reality check...

[Hervé]

I am sure my old dog avatar knows all but does not want to say anything...

Hmm, don't know ... Your dog avatar has more noise than a Maxwell render that's been stopped after three seconds of rendering.

Metin Seven, could U have more respect... mmm I think you don't know who is that dog...? Well let me tell you this was the Dog Of M. Maxwell himself... ! (found a picture on the web where he poses with his wife & dog)

[MetinSeven_com]

if Maxwell can introduce a biased noise reducer to shrink render times, does it make any sense *not* to do it just because we want to say that it's 'unbiased'?

Adehus, you keep repeating your Maxwell noise reducer argument, while I've already written at least twice that I would welcome an optional Maxwell NR algorithm.

[MetinSeven_com]

Metin Seven, could U have more respect... mmm I think you don't know who is that dog...? Well let me tell you this was the Dog Of M. Maxwell himself... ! (found a picture on the web where he poses with his wife & dog)

Oops!

[Duncan]

Hi Metin,
I'm not sure about that, using glossie materials, refractions and all the high settings in biased renderer will equal a biased renderer.

I've had 4 images 3000x1751 rendering with Maxwell and each one takes 4 to 5 days to get to exceptable level of noise. this is crazy. There all interiors and have glossie floors, glass and use emitters.
I'm going to try and optimise these shots when I get the chance and see if I can bring the times down. But with other renders I have never had to wait more than 24hrs with all the wiz bang settings on.

I really like Maxwell an will continue to use it, but most likely only for exterior shots.

Everyone keeps repeating that Maxwell is so slow. I think Maxwell is quite fast if you consider the unbiased approach. On my dual Xeon 2.8 GHz I can render a 1600 x 1200 size image that reaches the already very acceptable sampling level 14 within 6 to 9 hours, depending on the complexity of the scene.

Try turning on DOF and Caustics in V-Ray with high quality settings, throw in a number of glossy reflections and glossy refractions, set the GI settings quite high and then compare the render speed with Maxwell. Then you'll realize how slow a biased renderer can be compared to an unbiased renderer after all.

[MetinSeven_com]

Hi Duncan,

Does this also go for the latest Maxwell beta versions? I used to have to wait around 24 hours to reach the same low-noise level I now reach within half of that time.

Cheers,

Metin

[Duncan]

yep this is the latest beta, I have 2 dual opteron machines one 240 and the other 246, there no slouches. I was using the -hd option.
Heres a scaled down image, theres a bit of post work too.
I'm definitely not ruling out that it could be optimized. Maybe theres a small object in the scene thats miles away from whats in the camera. I find that slows things down.

[MetinSeven_com]

I agree with you too Adehus, as long as the biased elements will not delay the development of the new direction that Maxwell chose to follow in the first place.

I do also agree with someone else here who stated that you can use the standard Max Mental Ray renderer to get all the biasedness you'd ever want. Maxwell's approach is innovative. I'd like it to stay at a safe distance from what has already been done several times before, in the likes of V-Ray, finalRender, Mental Ray, Renderman, Arnold, Brazil, you name it.

Just my $0.02. I'm always in for a healthy discussion.

Cheers,

Metin

[Micha]

I don't know any biased renderer with "cooking" mode.

I think, some optional biased approximation could be a great advantage. Many new users without any renderer could decide faster for Maxwell, if it could work in fast "semibiased" way too with all the materials and the simple environment.

For example, the Rhino user have only two modern renderer at the moment - Rhinoman|AIR or Maxwell. In a few months Brazil is ready. I think, a biased renderer is a must so long maxwell is so slow. A biased renderer is a solid basic tool. The biggest problem of Maxwell is for me, it can not render fast simple illustrations in high resolution. I can render per a 6 Mega Pixel image in less an hour, but Maxwell need for ever to get it clean. Maxwell only can do super photoreal images, but biased render can do both - fast illustrations and photoreal images. If NL ignore this, than the team oversight a big chance.

[MetinSeven_com]

Agreed. Let's have some more patience and see what goods the NL team has in store for us.

Cheers,

Metin

[Micha]

... a small question: are bump mapped surfaces unbiased?

[MetinSeven_com]

Nope, those are unbiatched!

[Mihai]

You misinterpret the term 'unbiased' to mean absolute reality. What an unbiased renderer does is give you exactly the same result provided you give it the same settings.

So you can have an unbiased unrealistic renderer.

[MetinSeven_com]

To my knowledge, in Maxwell unbiased generally means without any tricks to simplify and speed up certain processes, such as different anti-aliasing algorithms, GI smoothing methods, option to turn off DOF, etcetera, none of that stuff. I think unbiased in Maxwell means "Just go for the ultimate result, without any concessions".

But correct me if I misinterpreted this. Oscar? Oscaaaarr?! Victor? Victoooorr?! Anyone?!