[Maximus3D]

Ok so we have to listen to the sound of silence again just because we disagree on something. Typical..

/ Max

[tom]

No silence Max. I'm brave to ask you for a comparison with another unbiased engine. Show me Maxwell and one of your favorite modern unbiased engine rendering side by side where the other one is not failing but only Maxwell. Well, waiting...

[Fernando Tella]

when you're dealing with energy/reflectance calculations like Maxwell and any other unbiased engine do, you have no chance to make approximate calculations on energy flow

I don't know much about how Maxwell is coded, but is there any short explanation for that?

[Becco_UK]

Am I right in thinking that a plain neutral displacement map used just to subdivide a mesh with little increase, if any, to Maxwells' render times?

When this thread first started I don't remember Maxwell having displacement - now smoothing of mesh can be done via materials.

[Bubbaloo]

But will it divide the polygons, keeping them flat on a low poly curve or will it divide the polygon keeping the smoothed curve? Would be a nice experiment...

[Becco_UK]

Bubbaloo: Curiosity killed the cat! I will test my idea and see what happens. I've never liked using bump maps with Maxwells' sun because shading problems occur with all sorts of objects, not just balls. My theory is that because displacement is only being used to subdivide a mesh and not influence it's original size then render times should not increase by too much. If there's any success at all then the programmers could easily build a similar feature directly into the engine. We will see!

[tom]

when you're dealing with energy/reflectance calculations like Maxwell and any other unbiased engine do, you have no chance to make approximate calculations on energy flow

I don't know much about how Maxwell is coded, but is there any short explanation for that?

As I said, this issue has nothing to do with Maxwell. It's same for any unbiased GI renderer and it's not easy making a short satisfactory technical information because mathematically it's very complicated. You can Google and find detailed information. BRDF, GI, unbiased, smooth shading etc could be keywords...

[Becco_UK]

I just love how Tom never replies to any of my posts

[Maximus3D]

Good to hear you're brave Tom, i would expect nothing less however there's no need for that kind of sarcasm, you could have left it out.. i have never claimed any other unbiased engine to be my so called favorite tool. That's just wrong and you should know better Tom, if it were i wouldn't be spamming this forum with my work so much would i..

Here's the test you requested, hope it helps.

C4D r11 viewport of sphere on floor, sphere is a standard 24 segment primitive.


Sphere rendered for 15 minutes with Maxwell


Sphere rendered for 15 minutes with Fryrender


Sphere rendered with Cinema4D r11 AR3 renderer for 32 seconds


Unfortunately i don't have Vray for C4D to test with but i'm sure it would produce the same result as AR3 does.

/ Max

[tom]

Here's the test you requested, hope it helps.

Yes, I wonder this too. Did it help you understanding it's a common problem for any unbiased engine?

Unfortunately i don't have Vray for C4D to test with but i'm sure it would produce the same result as AR3 does.

Cool, but why do you include a biased example in this comparison?

Also, are you sure you don't have an additional distant/small emitter in Maxwell one? Where does that sharp shadow on the floor come?

[Becco_UK]

Maximus3D: Nice test but the Cinema one is misleading - you kept the sphere option to render perfect - internally the mesh is being subdivided?

How does the Cinema test look with render perfect turned off and just rely on the phong settings?

[jespi]

Rendering relaying only in smooth angle

http://www.badongo.com/pic/5266000

[Maximus3D]

Tom: Nope i'm an idiot so i don't see why this happens, sorry. I included the unbiased example to show what it looks like, you're free to ignore it if you want. There is only one emitter in the scene, nothing else.

Becco: Oops, my mistake. Sorry but i forgot to deselect that thing. Here's a new updated rendering with that thing disabled.



In all these tests the phong angle is set at default 80 degrees.

/ Max

[tom]

In short, do you mean AR3 is unbiased?

[zeuhl]

I don't understand how works the smoothing angle. If it's not an interpolation between polygon shading (like in other biased renders), is it in the voxelisation process ?

So, maybe the solution would be a kind of subdivision in the voxelisation process ?