[Josephus Holt]

Unfortunately FormZ has missed the big boat for those of us who need to get going now...but I'm sure there will be other opportunities. Our company spent approx $500,000, yes half a million dollars to switch from Autocad to Archicad a couple of years ago. There is just simply no way they are going to make another change any time soon...not in my lifetime, that's for sure. So when FZ finally comes around with some really good arch tools, most of us will be so entrenched in our software that we just can not afford to change, very much the same as the posts of those who've used 3DS for such a long time. So it will be for the very small shops starting up which will grow into larger shops...it all will be a slow evolution...unless Autodesk buys FormZ

[Josephus Holt]

I've been thinking more about this since it's an issue for me personally. It's an issue because our primary mission is to design and produce 2D construction docs, but secondarily the presentation drawings are what help to "sell" the design. So if the software needed for arch/viz (topic) is ONLY for presentation, then the field is quite open as the thread makes pretty clear...it's just which one 3D modeling app you're most comfortable with...or maybe are most familiar with as those that have used 3DS for sooooo long.

However, if your arch/viz needs include the need to create 2D construction docs from the same 3D model, then it becomes much more problematic as ideally you would want to use your favorite modeler and export to a CAD program for 2D drawings. Unfortunately, most unfortunately actually, the import/export functions on CAD programs is very limited, and then the geometry comes in triangulated, which becomes virtually unusable in a 2D drawing. In that regard, FormZ is the ONLY** app that I know of which can model anything you want AND produce/export excellent hidden-line-removed 2D drawings in DWG format to be exported to your favority 2D CAD program for the base of your construction docs.

I should probably insert what I've mentioned before, is that so far I've found 2D/3D CAD programs* (*have not tried VW-demo on it's way) to be incomplete in so far as the modeling tools are concerned (FormZ and C4D have "spoiled" me in that regard).

If anyone has found a workflow that works without pain for using a single 3D model (created with advanced modeling tools not found in the most popular 3D CAD programs, VW perhaps excepted) for both 2D const docs and state-of-the-art viz (full UV controls), I would love to hear.

[Bubbaloo]

The thing is, Autocad Architecture 2008/2009 and Revit 2009 has built in mental ray rendering. This is the only "cad-to-presentation" system I know of. The drawback is that the models created from these programs are not (in my opinion) suitable for rendering in Maxwell. So if you want an all in one program for cad and rendering, these are the best ones. Now that I have gotten the boss used to that "Maxwell difference", I think there is no going back to mental ray. We use Architecture 2008, but when it comes to renderings, I remodel everything in Max. Besides, the renderings usually are requested before construction documents have even been started.

[Josephus Holt]

The thing is, Autocad Architecture 2008/2009 and Revit 2009 has built in mental ray rendering. This is the only "cad-to-presentation" system I know of. The drawback is that the models created from these programs are not (in my opinion) suitable for rendering in Maxwell. So if you want an all in one program for cad and rendering, these are the best ones. Now that I have gotten the boss used to that "Maxwell difference", I think there is no going back to mental ray. We use Architecture 2008, but when it comes to renderings, I remodel everything in Max. Besides, the renderings usually are requested before construction documents have even been started.

"Re-model" seems to be the order of the day in that scenario...keep hearing it all the time. I've tried 3D modeling in Autocad and hated it....whereas it's fun in FZ and C4D.

[lebbeus]

actually Revit 2009 to Rhino (via .dwg as ACIS solids) is now pretty good. The models now come in as actual solids instead of meshes so you can edit them directly instead of having to use them as a base for a remodel (or leaving them as-is)

[Josephus Holt]

I just downloaded Modo to check it out and I must say that I'm quite impressed. Don't know if there are features or greater ease-of-use than C4D which I'm currently using for arch/viz...but looks definitely like a program to put at the top of one's list to check out.

[Sheik]

I guess what you primarily need the software to do for you is the question;
If you are a project architect in a big architectural company, you will primarily need to produce 2D drawings, and then visualize it separately, ie you have a separate 3D model. If you aren’t the fulltime ArchViz specialist you want something fast and easy, like SketchUp.
If you are the fulltime ArchViz specialist, then learning curve isn’t a problem, and you can cope with an unfriendly UI, and you don’t need to produce 2D building drawings. You then have a ton of choices; Max, Modo, FormZ, C4D…
If you actually want to use 3D as a part of your planning process, or produce a BIM model for quantity takeoffs, HVAC integration & collision testing etc. Then you need to use ArchiCad, Revit or Alplan. Unfortunately these are all based on the same old 2,5D paradigm, and they are rather limiting to your design.
If you want to use 3D in the design process, but don’t need BIM, then we are back to SketchUp.

I am waiting for Bonzai. It could be the next generation of architectural software. Maybe they even figure out how to re-think the old BIM paradigm…

[jespi]

For architectural stuff, I highly recomend use NURBS software. Use 3D apps like C4D, Modo or 3dsmax for architecture's work is a lot more problematic (think about booleans operations, trim or project curves on surfaces) and what you get is only for visualization. In the other hand NURBS surfaces can be used for construction plans, and are more precise.
For Mac Osx I would try Rhino for mac ( beta and free until final release ), VectorWorks or FormZ.

[Josephus Holt]

I've downloaded both Modo and Rhino and I must say I'm REALLY impressed with Rhino immediately. If you're still looking, download and check it out...great drawing tools.

[medmonds]

My turn to chime in on this one...
Another vote for formZ despite the shared frustration with formZ not having "architecture tools" for parametric stuff like walls, doors, etc.

Once upon a time I'd draft, model, and render in Microstation (the days of PHONG )... Then when I changed jobs and had to switch to AutoCAD, I had to export to something else to model and render. FormZ stepped in well, but was a one-way time-sieve.

Now, I've arrived at a fairly easy workflow... I model (for design and construction documents) using Revit... Then export a DWG to formZ for texturing and lighting... then render to Maxwell. If something changes in the design, I re-export only the modifications and the reintegration preserves most of the work I did in formZ the first time through.

My other tools include Onyx Tree, Poser, Sketchup, PS, AI, etc.

Whenever texturing needs to be transferred from one format to another I use either OBJ or Fact (for Onyx to FormZ).

FormZ tech support in the forum is absolutely best-in-class.

As someone else already said, formZ crashes are most often related to faulty installs on Windows machines... and are almost always eliminated by a reinstall.

On the mac (OS 8 through OSX leopard) formZ has been nearly rock solid for over a decade.

Sketchup is only in my toolbox for 3D Warehouse import and entourage stuff from Form Fonts.

[trick]

I have been using FormZ since it has been made available for PC. I also use Lightwave, Max and Modo. For straight and complex modeling FormZ is still the only tool for me especially in speed. If the display speed comes back to the level of v3 and they don't share their development team over two products (FormZ - Bonzai) I will stay loyal. However this is very specific for my task: fast modeling for stills and animations. If you also need large complex 2D and 3D integrated drawings with lots of secondary information it's way too slow: it takes at least a coffee break to import DWG's from clients on the fastest machines: let alone the display speed when they are finished loading...

[flower]

Another vote for FormZ.

I've been using it now since 1993 when it was at v2, now on v6.6.1. Always on a Mac. Hardly ever crashes, perhaps a couple of times a month, and if it does it is usually operator error.

Mostly for architectural visualisation. Found it can do almost all of what I need. Used to have to clean up the architects dwgs in Autocad (removing hatching, exploding blocks etc.) but now the import works well, if a little slow sometimes.

Parametrics would be nice, and I think they will come in due course.

I tend to export to Maxwell and do all my scene setting, texturing, lighting in Studio. I also use Electric Image, although haven't touched that for a while now. Just get superior results from Maxwell.

Form Z support is just the very best I have come across. Absolutely fantastic.

Regards,
Bim

[JTB]

I use Revit for building modeling and I am not very happy... Revit may be the best BIM/CAD software for now but it is not a 3d modeler.... However, I don't have the luxury of remodeling because of the deadlines.
What I would like to know is how you people using apps like FormZ and other non-Autodesk apps do your plants, people models, etc.... I mean, you have to spend a lot of money for 3rd party libraries, right? How can you not be jealous of the millions of free models for Max and probably C4d?
Maybe you can do your work with obj files and 3ds and dxf but it is not always the same....
How can you ignore the hundreds plugins for Max for arch rendering, for example forestpack, onyxtree, xfrog etc...
I am not a fan of MAX and Autodesk, I have tried the C4d demo and found it very interesting, I gues Rhino is a great app too, but generally Revit ->Dwg and then probably Max is probably the best choise .

[Asmithey]

I have been using Form-Z since 1994 and it is hard for me to want to try any other modeling program for building architectural models. I down loaded demos of other modeling programs, like Rhino, and have not even installed them. I guess I just don't see the point. I learned Form-Z by doing a few tutorials and I was hooked. It was so easy to learn has tons of tools and I find the Nurbz tools fairly user freindly. I use it every day. It is actually fun and makes my work feel like a hobby!!! Oh and yes Support is incredible. Any time I have a problem someone is always there with a suggestion to help.

[JTB]

Oh and yes Support is incredible. Any time I have a problem someone is always there with a suggestion to help.

In Greece, support for this kind of apps doesn't exist! Imagine, I asked for a demo CD of C4D and they didn't have one, also they couldn't answer any of my questions and they started to read a PDF they received from Maxon.... I had almost the same problem with Revit...
They just sell the box like if it contains fruits.