[deneb26]

hi maxer

maxwellrender IS a stand-alone render-engine.
the connections to 3d-packages are designed as 'only-translator-plugins'.
all the geometry, material and render-settings are defined in the
modeling application. when you start your render, maxwell collects all this infos and translates it into a file-format it can read (MXS).
maybe you know the old lightscape software from '98.
it has some similarities in usage: create a scene, translate the scene
in a native file-format (exporting to lightscape), create/edit/assign materials, set render-settings, render.

ale

[Maxer]

My point was that Maxwell does have a connection to the main application even if it is only one way, why not exploit what's already there if your only going to be replicating it's functions. It sounds like the new GUI will do more (don't know exactley what) than the native editor does.

[Hugh]

I think the point is, Maxer, that there are plug-ins promised for so many applications that its going to be a looong time before they are all finished. I, for instance, am waiting for the Autocad plug-in. I realise that it's probably near the bottom of the list and I'll be lucky to see it this year.

If the GUI offers the functionality discussed however, it could well make my need for a plugin obsolete. I agree that speed improvements, etc. are important issues, but without the GUI there are many of us who cannot use M~W to it's full potential. Actually, if it wasn't for Daros and the gift of Matador we couldn't use it at all.

I think the release of the GUI will take the pressure off the plug-in team, and perhaps allow them the time to improve existing plug-ins.

There is of course one other very good reason to get the GUI done.......buffos

[Maxer]

If the GUI offers the functionality discussed however, it could well make my need for a plugin obsolete. I agree that speed improvements, etc. are important issues, but without the GUI there are many of us who cannot use M~W to it's full potential.

According to victor the only additional features that the GUI is going to include is material & lighting manipulation. He didn't say anything about cameras although I can't believe it wouldn’t have this feature. I think the point is that if the GUI includes what victor said it would you will still need a plug-in to your main application to fully use Maxwell, he said it him self that it's not going to be a full 3D application.

I'm not able to use Maxwell to it's full potential now even with a plug-in, it's just to slow to do anything but screen sized images in a reasonable amount of time. I think before anything else is done this issue needs to be taken care of because let's face it if you can't produce an image in a reasonable period of time the best GUI in the world won't matter.

[Hugh]

According to victor the only additional features that the GUI is going to include is material & lighting manipulation. He didn't say anything about cameras although I can't believe it wouldn’t have this feature. I think the point is that if the GUI includes what victor said it would you will still need a plug-in to your main application to fully use Maxwell, he said it him self that it's not going to be a full 3D application.

I know it won't be a full 3D application, but if you absolutely have to have a plug-in, what is point in having a GUI in the first place. Surely it would make more sense to do all setting up within the plug-in.

For the record, what victor actually said was:

In the last months there has been a big demand for standard object/scene import features, so we are paying attention to it.

Maxwell GUI will not be a full 3D application, you have a bunch of cool ones out there. But we understand that Maxwell must be more independent than our initial concept.

To me this implies that you can create your scene in any app you like, export it to 3ds (or any format that the GUI imports), apply materials manually or map them by name within the GUI, create a camera (whats the point in being able to import a scene if you can't create a camera) and render. This would generally satisfy all who didn't have a supported app (or plug-in yet).

This has the consquence of eventually opening maxwell up to a much bigger user base and making NL a sh*t load more money. The CAD market alone for instance doesn't just consist of Autocad and Solidworks. What about Solidedge, Pro-engineer, Revit & Microstation to name a few. The point is if M~W becomes truly independant it can only gain from it.

One thing we do agree on is speed though. faster faster faster

[cyberjuls]

I thought initially that the GUI would look quite the same as lightscape. You can import geometry then apply material (with maxwell you can already import geometry with materials applied depending on wich apps you work on).

Most of the stuff here under are unecessary to max users now, but since evrybody is not using max...
- Ability to assign materials to objects (UV editor would be awesome but maybe hard to do)
- Having block library for lights fixture, furnitures that we can just import and place directly in maxwell
- One thing i would have liked most would be to get a camera editor in maxwell gui since autocad and revit one are really awfull.
- Since i'll get an xsi pluggin , the list above won't concern me more than that, but i'll find it usefull for people working on other apps.
- Backing texture or whatever could help to have a realtime viz will be a must have.
- A live link like xref will also be a good stuff since this connection preserve materials, camera positions (defined in maxwell GUI).

I really love maxwell since it's the first render engine that i can set up in 5 minutes, and believe me when you designing a whole project as an architect, tweaking render engines during hours to get what you want really gives me headaches.

[Sheik]

I am surprised this discussion started so late. I think the render quality is definitely sufficient for all potential Maxwell customers, speed is a concern for many… but without a nice GUI to mach the excellent quality of the render-engine many will settle for products with crappy render engine, but witch looks more user-friendly. I think the GUI is vital for the commercial success of Maxwell. There are many SketchUp users out there looking at buying Maxwell when it is finished. SU users are looking for a rendering product that is as simple to use as SU. The product will need to have a low learning curve, and the way Maxwell uses real world definitions for materials, lights and cameras makes it easy to understand even for rendering novices. The problem is SU can’t really handle cameras or lights other than the sun, and the material editor only handles the texture map and transparency. So there is a need for an application that can handle these better, and also provide some kind of preview with the lights on. Most users do not have Max, C4D or other rendering packages now, and probably won’t want to learn to use them.
The best solution would be to use Maxwell directly from inside SU:
It would be great if we could replace the SU material editor with the Maxwell material editor inside SU (no need for conversion lists). Then there could be a small floating preview window add-on. Lights could be handled with simple dummy objects (there will be lights other than the ones we build from emitter material, right?) … No need for direct links between apps here.
But if NextLimit has to build, and maintain, dozens of complicated plug-ins they will probable not have any time to actually develop the engine… so a rather independent GUI may be the only realistic solution. It doesn’t need to be a complete 3D application because modelling would not be needed. Keep it simple!

Sheik

[victor]

Thanks for all the comments, they are valuable. NL is reading...

[Tyrone Marshall]

I really love maxwell since it's the first render engine that i can set up in 5 minutes, and believe me when you designing a whole project as an architect, tweaking render engines during hours to get what you want really gives me headaches.

I cannot agree more with you on this statement!

[Tyrone Marshall]

In the last months there has been a big demand for standard object/scene import features, so we are paying attention to it.

Import/export , i would request NL to look into Collada file format, its supported by Discreet, Alias, Softimage and a few other companies.

http://www.collada.org/public_forum/welcome.php

thats about the only request, i have

There are several standard file formats that most every application can either export or import. This one seems unknown.

How is this one as far as translation, what kinds of things does it include (cameras, textures, etc.)?

[Duncan]

I would like a non linear way of bringing files from the host app into Maxwell and back to the host app. Or a least be able to update certian objects/models in the scene with out having to reapply all the settings/materials.

Real time shadows would be a great help for setting up the physical sun.
-Azimuth / Elevation for adjusting the sun.
-Cameras in Maxwell
-Some procedual materials, like noise.

and the stuff about lights Cyberjuls said

[Miles]

STEP is the ISO format for CAD.

There are often problems exporting CAD models to the existing renderering programs.

It would open up Maxwell to many different CAD programs (not just SolidWorks) if it was possible to import geometry to the stand-alone Maxwell in STEP format. I'm assuming that the GUI will eventually allow application of materials, lights, cameras, backgrounds etc...

Miles

[Miles]

So Buffos, What do we do with CAD programs, rather than CG programs, that don't export in those formats?

Miles

[Miles]

I use Alibre Design and Intellicad.

I was thinking principally of MCAD, it's true.

My options for export from Alibre are;
STEP 203/214
SAT
STL

Perhaps STL would be an alternative?

Surely it's better that NL uses open and completely documented formats as neutrals, rather than half-open, proprietary ones....

I'm lucky that I'm not under any pressure to buy an AutoDesk product

Miles

[Miles]

Thanks for taking the trouble to look this up, buffos.

STEP is the native file format for Alibre Design. They expanded it with additiions for parametrics etc. which is all documented and filed with ISO.

There is a LightWorks add-on for Alibre, which I have. I much prefer the "look" of the images and the methodology of Maxwell.

What would be ideal for me, would be to import the geometry into Maxwell and carry out all the aspects of the rendering there. Perhaps I was naive in thinking this would be possible. I have very little knowledge of the rendering process.

The other alternative, for me, is to buy a copy of Rhino and use the Maxwell plug-in for that. Exchange between Alibre and Rhino is simple as there is a plug-in available for this purpose. I'll probably benefit from the surfacing capabilities of Rhino, as well.

Miles