[Mike Scola]

As an industrial designer I am often searching for materials by there technical name and/or trade name. "Red plastic" means little to me as what I am trying to represent in my renderings is the way a specific material interacts with the light. This has more to do with the physical properties of the material, which is why I am interested in MWR, and not necessarily the color of it.

For example, PE plastic appears different than ABS which in turn appears different than Nylon.

I realize that users have contributed various materials with these names in the past. Some are good, others not so much. It would be nice if there were a section of the materials web page in which materials were calibrated, verified and organized in this fashion by industry name. It would be a real help to those of us working on visualizations of real world objects.

To start, does anyone know of a comprehensive list of materials categories out there that could be used as a frame work for something like this?

[eric nixon]

To infinity and beyond?

[Mike Scola]

Sorry, should not have used the word "comprehensive". It would be nice if we could start with a well populated running list of materials that are commonly used in industry. I havent been able to find anything on the web so any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Ernesto]

A good set of materials free of bugs ready to be used would be a great help!!!"

[tom]

For example, PE plastic appears different than ABS which in turn appears different than Nylon.

None of them has a single look. It depends on the finish.

[Mike Scola]

I agree that the same material will look different given texture, color and in some cases thickness however, much like ior profiles (but not as overhead intensive), a set of basic properties for real materials (as mxm's) would be really helpfull. From there, each user can modify from the stock material.

[Polyxo]

None of them has a single look. It depends on the finish.

Yeah, correct - but some canned stuff definedly could help Industrial Designers, especially those who just start off using Maxwell.
Most of them will likely not end up as specialized visualization people who sit in front of the program all day and know all subtle effects
by heart...The will rather use the app only when they need it for showcasing their firms own creations.

As impressive and fascinating those V3 features which were showcased thus far: One has to face that most of this stuff has little to
no practical relevance at for the majority of product viz work or ID's: That's High key Studio shots, all the way, with overcast white background.

Please don't get me wrong, I know well that we have by thus far only seen a tiny fraction of what's new in V3.
I'm sure there's still a lot of great stuff to come. What got presented so far however will mostly make Arch Viz and Vfx people happy.

Keyshot, a program which totally focuses on the demands of Industrial Designers comes with a set of decent, often used surface treatments.
Maybe - as procedurals are coming one could make sure that also textures with relevance for this user group are selected.
I never used Keyshot but the program obviously also makes it very easy to output High Key images out of the box, the galleries are full of such shots.
Some preset Studio which deliver such out of the box, and let it be with a physically incorrect ground plane material wouldn't hurt either.

[Half Life]

This is not that difficult to do, but it is time consuming -- and honestly I would not want the dev team wasting precious development time making materials when they can be actually making the software itself better for everybody.

So from my POV this is better served by a dedicated 3rd party solution.

Best,
Jason.

[Polyxo]

So from my POV this is better served by a dedicated 3rd party solution.

I disagree.
You might not see a need for industrial design materials. I personally would come along perfectly in future without scale-able sun
and without fog - I can not remember ever having rendered a Scene which shows even a backdrop or the sky...
While I understand perfectly that a lot of people want/need this, these additions are not equally useful for "everybody".

People need software for different purposes!
Procedural textures are only useful in their parametric state - which only works fuzz free with native integration. When baking p's into
static bitmaps their beauty is gone. Native integration is indeed coming in V3 and I found awesome if one in terms of presets did not only
think of making bathroom tiles and wooden parquet. I'm sure that's on their radar anyway.

[Half Life]

I think what you are missing here is a material is a product of the software -- software designers make software, material designers make materials.

There are also plenty of features I may never have the chance to use -- but I have a much better chance of using more powerful software than pre-made materials... because again we always come back to the same issue: who decides what is good enough? A good example of that failing is the v2.0 wizard materials, for some users those may be good enough, and for others they are virtually unusable.

Creating a materials library suffers from the exact same logic flaw you use to bolster your position relative to the new atmosphere solutions -- not everybody is going to find it useful... and perhaps not very many people at all, due to quality standards.

So for my money, I would want the dev time put into better material creation tools and options, rather than "canned" materials.

Best,
Jason.

[Polyxo]

I think what you are missing here is a material is a product of the software -- software designers make software, material designers make materials.

Mxm's are products of Maxwell in the way brushes or patterns are part of Photoshop - necessary infrastructure in the creation of
the actual artwork. Why was providing basic libraries a waste of time? This to me only was the case if one could not further edit these mxm's.
Do you also mind that Zbrush comes with Hair Presets or Procedurals Presets? They, exactly as mxm's can serve as starting points for further
refinement.

So for my money, I would want the dev time put into better material creation tools and options, rather than "canned" materials.

I think both made sense and that there was no contradiction.
There should be more power user options but also some basic stuff which works well out of the box for standard product viz cases.
The Hyltom V1 materials which simulated some widely used consumer goods materials and surface finishes were quite popular.
I personally come along quite well but I'm sure that many ID's found some aspects offered in Keyshot damn handy.

Wasting precious developer time is a so often used argument...
Do you think it was Core Programmers who sat down to create sample materials and due to this run out of time on their work on new features?

[Half Life]

If everything else they want to accomplish is already done and they find themselves (whomever that may be) with excess resources to create materials... then sure, why not.

But I'm pretty sure such an imaginary scenario will never materialize -- and as such I would think it would be a terrible use of resources to prioritize something that users should ultimately be responsible for themselves... or at the very least use a 3rd party to fill the niche (I'm thinking of Arroway and their new stones set for Arch Viz as an example).

Anyway, I've said my bit on this topic -- take it however you'd like (I don't want to bog this thread down with an extended conversation).

Best,
Jason.

[Polyxo]

or at the very least use a 3rd party to fill the niche (I'm thinking of Arroway and their new stones set for Arch Viz as an example)

Jason - there's no 3rd party vendor whatsoever for materials the OP asked for. Not Arroway, not Dosch, nobody offers such as mxm's.
There's shiploads of suitable textures and also mxm's for Arch Viz but there's no vendor out there who offers libraries with accurately reverse engineered
industrial grade plastics and other popular consumer good materials. There's large libraries for every plastic sort as well as for finishes. What Keyshot offers
with its moldtech procedurals looks quite usable to me.

[Fille]

tom wrote:
None of them has a single look. It depends on the finish.

Yeah, correct - but some canned stuff definedly could help Industrial Designers, especially those who just start off using Maxwell.
Most of them will likely not end up as specialized visualization people who sit in front of the program all day and know all subtle effects
by heart...The will rather use the app only when they need it for showcasing their firms own creations.

I agree 100%!!!

As impressive and fascinating those V3 features which were showcased thus far: One has to face that most of this stuff has little to
no practical relevance at for the majority of product viz work or ID's: That's High key Studio shots, all the way, with overcast white background.

Exactly!

Please don't get me wrong, I know well that we have by thus far only seen a tiny fraction of what's new in V3.
I'm sure there's still a lot of great stuff to come. What got presented so far however will mostly make Arch Viz and Vfx people happy.

Yes...

Philip

[Mike Scola]

All good comments, and the thought of there being something in V3 that would help is tantalizing, however I think that creating a library of well calibrated materials under industry names might be best handled by a grass roots effort, sanctioned by NL with a dedicated section of the materials web page. This way users can contribute, evaluate and add to it, while NL can organize and make it available. The difference from what we already have would be that the materials are referenced by the industry name so that if I use a particular material I can rely on it being close to its real world analog.

As an example, the other day I was looking for a particular type of foam material for a carrying case I was designing. There are several types of foam materials that I could have used. Closed cell, open cell, self skinning, neoprene, PE foam etc.

Anyway, I'm hoping that any effort made towards materials addresses this need in the future.