[thomas lacroix]

the mac 2 sII is the fisrt mac i did 3d with, and it was with infiniD too, it wasnt that slow to render, come on

on an atari 520 ok that would have taken 1-2 hours not that much

ricardo i too did test at the time of the fisrt radiosity engine on strata, but come on, how many years did it takes for us to have radiosity that works and is useable? waiting another years to render a complex 2K interior in 4 hours on a single PC is a luxury i dont have, so i keep testing and waiting other engines

[glebe digital]

Perhaps our respective perceptions of time have changed over...erm, time.

Maybe your IIsi had the hardware fpu, mine didn't even have the SW version.

Either way, my point is that the hardware was behind what I wanted to do with software............which is not dissimilar to now. Perhaps it's always this way.

[thomas lacroix]

hardware will always be behind us as the perspective of what we can do and what we want to do with will grow accordingly, the matter here, is that in production maxwell can be use only under large deadline without to much project modifications and on tight budget, as most of us knows sky isnt the limit, i cant spend too much time and ressources as clients tends to restrain those more and more, so the 2 things i expect from next limit is a better workflow and speed, as a c4d user, at the time i purchased the engine, maxwell was the only alternative to advenced render and the only one that could help me compete with other package, but as thing come i'll maybe have others renderer that may fullfill my need in coming months. thats a pity i was very enthousiat at the begining of the journey and even encouraged others to purchase the beta. now i'm more on the wait and see side... too bad, maxwell's got a terrific lights, we'll see...

[JTB]

hardware will always be behind us as the perspective of what we can do and what we want to do with will grow accordingly, the matter here, is that in production maxwell can be use only under large deadline without to much project modifications and on tight budget, as most of us knows sky isnt the limit, i cant spend too much time and ressources as clients tends to restrain those more and more, so the 2 things i expect from next limit is a better workflow and speed, as a c4d user, at the time i purchased the engine, maxwell was the only alternative to advenced render and the only one that could help me compete with other package, but as thing come i'll maybe have others renderer that may fullfill my need in coming months. thats a pity i was very enthousiat at the begining of the journey and even encouraged others to purchase the beta. now i'm more on the wait and see side... too bad, maxwell's got a terrific lights, we'll see...

This is one of the most serious comment I have ever read in this forum...
I agree 100%.

Even though I make what we say "easy" projects, as most of the work is exterior architectural renderings of small houses or appartments, I often find my self begging my clients for more time especially when I have to change something. The best solution I have found so far is this : Because I use Revit, I can give my client the finished building model as coloured 3d with shadows, it looks quite nice and I ask them to make all the changes/corrections on that model. After that send another model with the corrections and I get the final "OK" to start rendering. If there are more changes later, I charge some extra fee for them and ask as much time as possible.

[b-kandor]

.... the matter here, is that in production maxwell can be use only under large deadline without to much project modifications and on tight budget...

I would add that there are many types of work out there. 2 weeks ago I used maxwell on a project. Started modelling friday morning, by late friday I started rendering on my 4 machines (2 fast, 2 slow). By Monday morning I had 8 renderings done with more variations added due to multi-light. My customer was very happy with the quality.

So I guess it just depends...I'm not disagreeing with what you say but just offering a different take on it.

[glebe digital]

I agree it just depends on the type of project.............my current contract has a shot list of 38 renders, all at 2500x1500.......due to the fast lighting setup and material generation in MWR, I'm about a week ahead of schedule and looking good for an early delivery.

[thomas lacroix]

I guess it just depends...I'm not disagreeing with what you say but just offering a different take on it.

sure thats why i'm beeing cautious, if its a single chair or not too complexes things it can be use ( even if the workflow could be improved) , i 'm in interiors rendering and oftenlly got update on the fly ho, and dont forget that the clients knows that the tech is evolving and that quote " it shouldnt take that long"

anyway cant do anything to ease things for the engine or tyhe plug so,
as many, just can wait and see

[JTB]

I agree it just depends on the type of project.............my current contract has a shot list of 38 renders, all at 2500x1500.......due to the fast lighting setup and material generation in MWR, I'm about a week ahead of schedule and looking good for an early delivery.

But what is your time schedule here? Mine, usually is 15 days per project including the architectural drawings. In 15 days I have to present at least some sort of rendering (low-res) and then produce the final 2-3 renderings of the house.

[glebe digital]

But what is your time schedule here?

26 days for modeling and render output, including 6 300 frame anims.......but those are being done in LW.

[Mihai]

and dont forget that the clients knows that the tech is evolving and that quote " it shouldnt take that long"

Not really related to the issues discussed in this thread, but isn't anyone else worried about this? It seems to me like a vicious circle for people in the arch viz world. Clients are under the impression that with faster computers and new software, the image practically renders itself and all we have to do is press a few buttons.

But in reality, do we spend less time learning new software as it gets more capable yet also more complex? Do we need less knowledge to use it properly? It's certainly the other way around, yet clients expect more work, more complex renders, done faster, for the same money.

This is the reason I simply don't accept jobs that require insane delivery times, I can't stand it when someone is so ambitious but at the same time you get the feeling they have no clue or appreciation of what is needed to make a decent image. Because their demands will never cease to increase if you don't put a limit at some point and say, look, if you want this quality it takes effort, and I didn't pick this up over night reading a manual, no matter what software I use. So quality in the end is all I have to bargain with. They could have it done by somebody else, using other tools, cheaper and probably faster in many cases, but if that's what they want........keep in touch....

That's my take on it anyway. I can't imagine in two years from now, what will be expected from us? Twice the amount of work done, simply because computers are faster? No way......

[Hervé]

yep... in other words, choose your client....

[thomas lacroix]

yep... in other words, choose your client....

wake up boys it's quite a luxury these days

[aitraaz]

Clients are under the impression that with faster computers and new software, the image practically renders itself and all we have to do is press a few buttons.

LOL LOL clients have always been under that impression its a constant...

[glebe digital]

As a fulltime freelancer I can't see myself ever being able 'to pick and choose' clients, but I'm not going to kill myself for a few hundred bucks either.

I guess I'm lucky that Archviz accounts for only a small proportion of my work; the majority of my clients are corporations so they expect to pay a premium for the higher quality [even if they still want it double quick. ]

As the cpus get better, I expect all I'll be doing is trying to get even more out of a rendering computational-wise, it's always been the case that as the crates get faster, you just expect them to do new things.

[b-kandor]

Yep! I've been watching this my whole life, I started as a pattern maker before there were even fax machines. A client would call our company, we would talk about what they wanted and they would finish by saying "I'll send you some drawings in the mail".

A couple of weeks would go by, then you'd get an envelope or tube with some drawings. You'd call them up, arrange a meeting, sit at the drafting table with a coffee and do some of your own drawings (oh yeah, I used to smoke then do, with coffee, that was good!).

Anyhow, you get the idea.... totally different pace, even though we still had deadlines, stress etc.

Nowadays, is totally much more frantic, this week alone, I've finished designs on 7 injection molded parts AND finished the tool design on 4 tools for those parts and shipped all the data by email to the tool shop. iges files, pdf's the whole package, mold bases, ejector pins, inserts - blech! too much in one week.

and dont forget that the clients knows that the tech is evolving and that quote " it shouldnt take that long"

Not really related to the issues discussed in this thread, but isn't anyone else worried about this? It seems to me like a vicious circle for people in the arch viz world. Clients are under the impression that with faster computers and new software, the image practically renders itself and all we have to do is press a few buttons.

But in reality, do we spend less time learning new software as it gets more capable yet also more complex? Do we need less knowledge to use it properly? It's certainly the other way around, yet clients expect more work, more complex renders, done faster, for the same money.

This is the reason I simply don't accept jobs that require insane delivery times, I can't stand it when someone is so ambitious but at the same time you get the feeling they have no clue or appreciation of what is needed to make a decent image. Because their demands will never cease to increase if you don't put a limit at some point and say, look, if you want this quality it takes effort, and I didn't pick this up over night reading a manual, no matter what software I use. So quality in the end is all I have to bargain with. They could have it done by somebody else, using other tools, cheaper and probably faster in many cases, but if that's what they want........keep in touch....

That's my take on it anyway. I can't imagine in two years from now, what will be expected from us? Twice the amount of work done, simply because computers are faster? No way......