[mtripoli]

Got everything ordered up for my next CAD machine. The MB I got (Gigabyte Z97 chipset, 4.0G Haswell quad-core, Nvidia Quadro k4000 VC)) has a combo connector that supports M.2. I ordered a 512G "stick" with the explicit idea to install the OS and a maybe a couple of other programs on it. Anyone had any experience with this yet? From my research and what I can suss out this should be a performance monster. Just curious if anyone has played with this.

Mike T.

[mtripoli]

This is the "off-topic" section, so I hope no one minds the occasional post regarding the build up of this new machine I'm doing. Not saying I want to turn this into a "build your own machine" forum; the last time I built a machine totally from scratch was more than 7 (10!) years ago and things have changed (BIOS vs. BIOS/UEFI was a new one on me) that others as well as myself may not be aware of that I'd like to share as interesting points come up...

I'm updating my older CAD workstation to hand down to my son; the new one is mine . BTW; we recycle a lot of stuff; we're definitely not made of money. In a quick comparison (and nothing against anyone), for instance, the machine I'm building costs about 1/3 (with way better spec's) than a compare against I got online from "Boxx" (typical disclaimer: "I'm sure they do a great job, warranty, etc.", we're just not the kind of shop that afford to "make a phone call and get it in here tomorrow").

Todays "update"; installing the OS from a USB flash drive. Using "RUFUS" http://rufus.akeo.ie/ I made a bootable USB FD with Win 7 x64 on it. You (of course) need the OS ISO http://www.w7forums.com/threads/officia ... ads.12325/, legitimate serial numbers and a good FD.

Once I had the old system "stripped' out with nothing but a new SSD in it, it was just a matter of booting from the USB FD to start the install. I'm not super focused on how long each step takes, from experience using DVD install optically, I figured on something like 40 min. - hour. I set it running, and checked on it about 10 minutes later; it was done. Done like the whole OS had been installed and sitting there waiting to go. I wish I had paid more attention to the closer times, the point is, it was so simple to create the OS flash drive for the install and then it went so fast (installing to a new Crucial SSD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148820 I can't imagine doing it another way now. I almost didn't buy an optical drive for the new system; I did because of a few pieces of software that are still on CD/DVD but I see the very near time when an optical drive is just pointless.

If anyone cares, here's the major investment. Some choices were made by what was on sale, or came as a combo. 99% from Newegg, taking advantage of their "free" 30 day Premeir membership. Amazon Prime like and can help with shipping, etc.

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811119252
I admit, I had a different case picked out, and this came up with a rebate. Without looking at the "outside" spec I skipped right over it. When it showed up, I was floored; you could fit a small pony in this thing. Built like a tank, totally open... I might get a piece of glass cut and use it as an end table when all is said and done.

Power supply: I design these things (not for PC's) so don't skimp. Had some good reviews around the net, we'll see.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 1YH1GV9461

MB: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128722 I've been using Gigabyte and Asus. This came up as a combo with the processor, spec's looked good.

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819117369

Memory: Taken from the recommended mem list from Gigabyte. I've used G.Skilll in the past with no problems. Maxed out MB.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231602

SSD: A couple of these (512G) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148821 I've used Cruccial since the BBS days (almost) and have never had a single problem with them.

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236244 I chose a HDD for my Dropbox. Despite how far SSD's have come, I have had more than one just "stop". If you know about Dropbox and how it works, this is a moot point; I still feel better having a platter drive in there for this...

M.2 SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148798 This is where the OS will live, maybe Solidworks, Maxwell... depend on how much room there is left. Once I'm further along, I'll know for sure, but it seems to me that one could install the OS and everything to one of these and then clone it (I haven't looked into just what's out there to do that). If the system OS should crash one could pull this little stick out, put in the clone and be back to where you where? Have to be meticulous about doing OS and software installs to make sure this actually happens that way. Hmmm...

If this thread bugs people say so and I'll kill it. On top of doing this, I've just had two neck surgeries so not supposed to get out of this chair. This post is also serving to keep me from going a little banana coo-coo...

[Fernando Tella]

The price of the case caught my attention. Isn't it utterly overpriced? I mean, I enjoy a very comfortable case, well built, for around 60€. I wouldn't waste much more on that.

[numerobis]

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811119252
I admit, I had a different case picked out, and this came up with a rebate. Without looking at the "outside" spec I skipped right over it. When it showed up, I was floored; you could fit a small pony in this thing. Built like a tank, totally open... I might get a piece of glass cut and use it as an end table when all is said and done.

I mean... there's no accounting for taste... so i will not say anything about the design , but why such a big and expensive case for these few components?!? Are you planning to add 10 HDDs, 3 video cards and two radiators in the future?

Power supply: I design these things (not for PC's) so don't skimp. Had some good reviews around the net, we'll see.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 1YH1GV9461

1050W?!? really? Why? You could almost run a 3-way-SLI with this PSU. Half of this would be more than enough for your sys. Maybe 700W if you want to add a bigger video card later. Using the PSU calcutator i came out at ~400W for this config even with 20% capacitor aging and 100% load on CPU and GPU.
And normally the efficiancy is the best at around 60-70% load... a value you will never reach with this config.
I would opt for something around 700W if you plan to overclock later.
http://www.enermax.outervision.com/PSUEngine

Memory: Taken from the recommended mem list from Gigabyte. I've used G.Skilll in the past with no problems. Maxed out MB.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231602

Why 2666MHz?!? For rendering this will give you maybe 1-2% more performance compared to 1866MHz... for almost 50% more money?
And btw. they need 1.65v for 2666MHz - Intel spec for Haswell is 1.5v. Since the RAM controller is part of the CPU for Haswell, as far as i know, for more than 1.58v you need additional vcore. And one other thing concerning the GSkill - i would take some low profile modules (LP) to avoid problems with the CPU cooler.
I normally use these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820233400

MB: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128722 I've been using Gigabyte and Asus. This came up as a combo with the processor, spec's looked good.
SSD: A couple of these (512G) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148821 I've used Cruccial since the BBS days (almost) and have never had a single problem with them.

M.2 SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148798 This is where the OS will live, maybe Solidworks, Maxwell...

Are you sure that the M.2 M550 is bootable on the Gigabyte board?
And if i would go for a M.2 SSD i think i would take a Samsung XP941 with PCIe and NVMe instead of SATA M.2 (10Gbit/s vs SATA 6 Gbit/s) and a board that allows connection with 4 lanes instead of two - which is only ASRock at the moment (ASRock Z97 Extreme6, ASRock Z97 Extreme9) or you need an external controller card. SATA M.2 has the same limit as normal SATA3 SSDs.
AS FAR AS I KNOW, the XP941 is bootable on the Extreme6. (and the ASRock is even cheaper http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157500)
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sam ... 826-3.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8006/sams ... ra-is-here


And why these two additional SATA SSDs and a HDD?

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236244 I chose a HDD for my Dropbox. Despite how far SSD's have come, I have had more than one just "stop". If you know about Dropbox and how it works, this is a moot point; I still feel better having a platter drive in there for this...

not sure what you mean, but if you really want to put a HDD into your workstation these days, why 10k drive? for Dropbox?!?

And i would add at decent CPU-Cooler...

[mtripoli]

The price of the case caught my attention. Isn't it utterly overpriced? I mean, I enjoy a very comfortable case, well built, for around 60€. I wouldn't waste much more on that.

I agree, it's up there. I was frankly shocked when I got the thing. As I said, I had a different case picked out, one that was more to the task at hand. But the price difference was so small between what I had and this, I said the hell with it. Without a doubt, this will be the last case I ever buy - lol. I'm thinking making tricking it out a bit, some "street neon" lights under it. Maybe put some "spinners on it, take it crusing on the main Saturday

[mtripoli]

I'm gonna' skip around here... none of this is so important that we should think too hard about it.

The case, yes, is an absolute monster as noted. The more I've looked at it, I'm okay with it. I do in fact have a bunch of drives I'll be putting in there... It makes me laugh a bit...

One thing about my "systems"; I'm a EE that does mechanical design. Very little of what may listed is "for a render box". As I mentioned, the next box I'll build after this one may be 5-8 years down the road...

Power supply; I always go with an "oversized" supply for a variety of reasons. I'm running an Nvidia QuadroFX K6000 with 3 monitors.

I don't mess with over-clocking; I had my fill of tweaking Holley Carbs when I was a teen... I'll set it up and forget about it - watching single cycles....

After searching and searching I finally got sick of it and just called Gigabyte and asked him about booting from M.2. No problem (so they say).

I got a very nice passive cooler/heatsink - not interested in water, etc. The "10k" drive was on sale

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811119252
I admit, I had a different case picked out, and this came up with a rebate. Without looking at the "outside" spec I skipped right over it. When it showed up, I was floored; you could fit a small pony in this thing. Built like a tank, totally open... I might get a piece of glass cut and use it as an end table when all is said and done.

I mean... there's no accounting for taste... so i will not say anything about the design , but why such a big and expensive case for these few components?!? Are you planning to add 10 HDDs, 3 video cards and two radiators in the future?

Power supply: I design these things (not for PC's) so don't skimp. Had some good reviews around the net, we'll see.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 1YH1GV9461

1050W?!? really? Why? You could almost run a 3-way-SLI with this PSU. Half of this would be more than enough for your sys. Maybe 700W if you want to add a bigger video card later. Using the PSU calcutator i came out at ~400W for this config even with 20% capacitor aging and 100% load on CPU and GPU.
And normally the efficiancy is the best at around 60-70% load... a value you will never reach with this config.
I would opt for something around 700W if you plan to overclock later.
http://www.enermax.outervision.com/PSUEngine

Memory: Taken from the recommended mem list from Gigabyte. I've used G.Skilll in the past with no problems. Maxed out MB.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231602

Why 2666MHz?!? For rendering this will give you maybe 1-2% more performance compared to 1866MHz... for almost 50% more money?
And btw. they need 1.65v for 2666MHz - Intel spec for Haswell is 1.5v. Since the RAM controller is part of the CPU for Haswell, as far as i know, for more than 1.58v you need additional vcore. And one other thing concerning the GSkill - i would take some low profile modules (LP) to avoid problems with the CPU cooler.
I normally use these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820233400

MB: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128722 I've been using Gigabyte and Asus. This came up as a combo with the processor, spec's looked good.
SSD: A couple of these (512G) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148821 I've used Cruccial since the BBS days (almost) and have never had a single problem with them.

M.2 SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148798 This is where the OS will live, maybe Solidworks, Maxwell...

Are you sure that the M.2 M550 is bootable on the Gigabyte board?
And if i would go for a M.2 SSD i think i would take a Samsung XP941 with PCIe and NVMe instead of SATA M.2 (10Gbit/s vs SATA 6 Gbit/s) and a board that allows connection with 4 lanes instead of two - which is only ASRock at the moment (ASRock Z97 Extreme6, ASRock Z97 Extreme9) or you need an external controller card. SATA M.2 has the same limit as normal SATA3 SSDs.
AS FAR AS I KNOW, the XP941 is bootable on the Extreme6. (and the ASRock is even cheaper http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157500)
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sam ... 826-3.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8006/sams ... ra-is-here


And why these two additional SATA SSDs and a HDD?

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236244 I chose a HDD for my Dropbox. Despite how far SSD's have come, I have had more than one just "stop". If you know about Dropbox and how it works, this is a moot point; I still feel better having a platter drive in there for this...

not sure what you mean, but if you really want to put a HDD into your workstation these days, why 10k drive? for Dropbox?!?

And i would add at decent CPU-Cooler...

[numerobis]

So then... have fun!

I think i'll build my new workstation in september around an overclocked 5960X.
NVMe looks really interesting - i think i have to get a PCIe SSD then, since the X99 chipset doesn't seem to support M.2.
But these benches are really crazy: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8104/inte ... ith-nvme/2

But still a bit pricey...

[mtripoli]

So far, so good. Got the MB up and running. I installed the M.2 card as the only drive in the system; it was recognized with no issues. I had previously prepared Win 7 on a USB flash drive for install; it took 6 minutes for the entire OS to be installed and running. Totally unofficial; it takes about 6 seconds from hitting the power button to having a full desktop. Going do do the rest of the drives and software tonight.

[mtripoli]

Going back to the original question posed in the title; as far as this system is concerned, yes, you can install (and boot from) the OS on the M.2 drive. I have the Win7 x64, Solidworks 2014, Photoshop, Illustrator, MS Word, Excel, etc. all installed and running from the M.2 drive.

My next "test" is to clone the M.2 drive and see if simply swapping them one for another works. If it does, it would mean doing away with system restore discs and such. If for some reason the OS or another program got corrupted, one could pop out the "stick" and be right back to where you were...

[numerobis]

see if simply swapping them one for another works.

Why not? The M550 is SATA3 based so it should work like any other SATA drive. And if you clone it now or store an image to write it back later is the same... But where would be the advantage? To write back an image takes maybe 5-15 min depending on the size and the backup medium.
And if you plug in the cloned drive, you can only do it once - and an expensive SSD as backup? Sure, if you need a new drive you'll have one.

[mtripoli]

see if simply swapping them one for another works.

Why not? The M550 is SATA3 based so it should work like any other SATA drive. And if you clone it now or store an image to write it back later is the same... But where would be the advantage? To write back an image takes maybe 5-15 min depending on the size and the backup medium.
And if you plug in the cloned drive, you can only do it once - and an expensive SSD as backup? Sure, if you need a new drive you'll have one.

The M.2 drive is just one screw to remove/replace so if one was on hand it would take about 30 seconds to swap it out.

I'm not following one thing you said: "And if you plug in the cloned drive, you can only do it once...". Why is this?

[numerobis]

I meant only that if you look at it as system restore/backup you can only restore it once with a fresh image, because you are replacing it directly with the image.

The M.2 drive is just one screw to remove/replace so if one was on hand it would take about 30 seconds to swap it out.

Sure, it will be faster than a writing back an image.

My problem with images/system restores normally is that i have installed, updated or configured many additional things since i took the image and therefore the longest part of the recovery goes into these additional settings - no matter if it takes seconds or minutes to restore the original system.

[mtripoli]

Agreed. In the past I have forgone any kind of system restore or the like because as you say, if something does happen, I've made so many changes that "going" back isn't worth it. However, given that the M.2 card is so easily removed doing occasional "new copies" of it might not be so bad. I use pretty much the same programs year after year so once I've got everything installed fresh its safe to say not much will change. I'm going to run the system for a couple of weeks and if it remains stable I'll make a copy.