[donb]

I need your help picking a general purpose modeling program. I currently use Sketchup and Solidworks. Sketchup is fantastic for architectural modeling but it lacks the tools (like fillet, sweep, loft and Nurbs) needed to make other real-world objects. Solidworks is perfect for engineered products but also lacks nurbs modeling and is a poor choice for complex scenes.

I have investigated other programs such as 3D studio, Maya, Rhino, FormZ, Modo, and C4D. 3D Studio and Maya are just too expensive. Rhino seems limited. FormZ is cumbersome. Modo is too difficult for general purpose use. That leaves C4D which is reasonably priced at $695 but gets very expensive when you start adding modules ($2500 for the engineering bundle which works with Solidworks).

I would really appreciate any and all opinions on these programs. Thanks.

Don

[dutch_designer]

purely for modeling, try Wings3D or Silo.. they're brilliant for poly modeling, if you want to render though... what about the basic version of XSI? You'd be surprised how cheap it is (495 for XSI foundation).

[glypticmax]

Hi donb,
You failed to mention what it is you are trying to model. Are you choosing between NURBS and poly modeling? Or do you need both?
I use Rhino, mostly the V4 Beta, which I find greatlly improved over V3.
And C4D for some special things I can't do in Rhino. I find it a very good combination. I then render in Maxwell Studio.
I have friends that use everything you've mentioned. There are advantages and warts to every program.

[Thomas An.]

Rhino seems limited....

Hi Don,

What were the limitations of Rhino ?

[JCAddy]

Poly Modeling - Silo - CHEAP PRICE as well

also check out modo, amazing program.

[Leonardo]

you talk about nurbs... and then say rhino is limited?

leo

[Maximus3D]

I agree about Silo, it's the most power you can get for it's super low price. Or if you wanna aim even lower then Blender is ofcourse a good one with a quirky interface, just look at what Tim can do with Blender in the forum challenge, i'm impressed.

It also depends on you and your type and style of modeling, try them out and see which one you feel most at home with and then invest in it.

/ Max

[Tim Ellis]

Has to be Blender 3D 2.42 for me.

Available for free from http://www.blender3d.org

Check out any of my work on these boards for examples of Blender modeling & Maxwell rendering, or on my website.

Blender is the open source software for 3D modeling, animation, rendering, post-production, interactive creation and playback. Available for all major operating systems under the GNU General Public License.
Blender now boasts fluid simulation, node based material system, two physics engines for game creation etc More detailed info can be found here in the release notes:- http://www.blender.org/cms/Blender_2_42.727.0.html


Tim.

[piem]

I vote hexagon for polys.

Only If you don't have a Mac

It's obvious that hexagon is less powerfull than Modo for a bunch of reasons (Modo, is really a high end modeler for all kind of works)
But it's very very easy to learn Hexagon and it's enough for 95 per cent of any work.

For nurbs..same thing..Rhino is the nurbs specialist, but I'd prefer my good Amapi7.51. Just because it is nice and efficient for 95 per cent of nurbs modeling...(And it's true that we must avoid all the traps that the modelers coming from polygonal applications can fall into ) .


(Zbrush is a thing apart.)

[glebe digital]

Blender for it's non-existent cost but Lightwave's modeler is still the reason I keep upgrading.

[ricardo]

If you already have solid works you should try rhino. They partned some time ago and integrated easily both ways, for free.

The Rhino V4 that is in beta has some great new stuff.

And on top of this we are beta testing tsplines for rhino, wich brings SDS alike modelling strategies (to keep the talk simple) into rhino's NURBS engine.

Ricardo

[daros]

I think that a nurbs a modeler is a wrong choice for architectural rendering.
Many of our clients send us Rhino models of about 200-400 MB. Some times they wait about 5 minutes to open a file. They produce very complex geometries and they are not able to render them because Rhino or Max crashes during the meshing procedure. Rhino has also a very stupid meshing control as most nurbs modelers.
Normally you must mesh layer by layer with customized settings for each one.
A 300 MB Rhino file exported to polygons with a almost correct curve definition ranges between 3-4 million polygons.
Correct polygon reduction of a similr file takes between 3 and 9 hours.
And please do not forget to join all trimmed and untrimmed surfaces if you don't want holes in curved edges (about other 8 hours in a complex project).
With a poly modeler normally you can reach a higher level of detail with less as 500.000 polygons.
I really do not understand nurbs modeling for rendering purposes

[ricardo]

I really do not understand nurbs modeling for rendering purposes

This is the point: do you need to fabricate what you are designing? If you are into product design trying to set meshes for rendering is very easy when compared to detaling a mesh for fabrication.

Ricardo

[donb]

Wow, thanks for the response, everyone.

I should have been clear about my use which is industrial design. I use Sketchup for, well, sketchups, and Solidworks for actual design (the SW license is through my employer). I want to do more organic type designs and also want something I can use at home just for fun. Rhino looks like a good choice but has a limited toolset when compared to C4D. Maybe that's O.K. (for example I don't really need animation) but since I'm paying for this out of my own pocket I can't afford a different modeling engine for each different type of design.

May I should ask the question differently and in a way that will help others as well: What modeler do you use and what are its limitations and drawbacks?

Thanks

[glypticmax]

For me, if I want precision, ease of use, speed, and design freedom, I use Rhino. The precision aspect is essential, because if I bump into something I want to RP, its ready to go. I don't have to then go remodel in some other package in order to make my STL.
What is lacking for me in Rhino are displacement mapping capabilities. Which I use a lot of. For that, its C4D/Jenna. Again with STL output.
And sometimes I combine Rhino and C4D models for what I need.
So I get my *organics* with displacements, not control point tug-a-wars.
Renders are just eye candy to help sell a model. I enjoy doing them, but they do not generate any cash flow in and of themselves.
I agree with Ricardo there are some interesting, even exciting things happening with NURBS modeling which promise to bring it closer to poly modeling. Which adds weight to the Rhino side of my modeling equation.
And let's not forget, NURBS (the *B* stands for Messr Bezier) were invented by two Frenchmen. And we all know what that means........