[numerobis]

I've noted from a post on the PushPullBar that yesterday Thea has launched their realtime preview feature. I hope NL aren't long off on their release!

the feature list of thearender looks quite impressive... did you test it? how is it working? bugs?

[Maximus3D]

I just installed it here to give it a quick whirl and see what it's like.

/ Magnus

[m-Que]

no more news about maxwell realtime ?

Good, someone still remembers how this topic started!

Some news would be more than interesting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbL6OBT6Zc

[Maximus3D]

Ok, i had a quick play with it and it's nice! it's fast, responsive to changes and easy to use. I can't really complain about it. Oh and btw, it appears to be CPU based only, just like the Maxwell Preview Thingy we will get soon.

/ Magnus

[numerobis]

Thank You Magnus,

i will test it too... the unbiased/biased combination with all these features and realtime preview looks really interesting.
Maybe i have to buy another beta version renderer...

[Richard]

I ran some tests with Thea earlier against Maxwell with straight out of the box setting for both to get a direct comparison!

http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... 07&t=34034

There were a few things then (lots actually) I didn't like about the UI as it was really quite a click fest to get around. From recent screen shots I'm not sure they have made too many improvements.

[max3d]

I ran some tests with Thea earlier against Maxwell with straight out of the box setting for both to get a direct comparison!

http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... 07&t=34034

There were a few things then (lots actually) I didn't like about the UI as it was really quite a click fest to get around. From recent screen shots I'm not sure they have made too many improvements.

I ran some tests with Thea earlier against Maxwell with straight out of the box setting for both to get a direct comparison!

http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... 07&t=34034

There were a few things then (lots actually) I didn't like about the UI as it was really quite a click fest to get around. From recent screen shots I'm not sure they have made too many improvements.

I find the current ´real time´ preview almost impossible to work with. It´s extremely limited in what it can show and it´s sluggish which hampers your workflow. Iray and Octane are much more intuitive to use with instant feedback. From the demo I have seen from Maxwell it will easily beat the Thearender IA preview.

Be aware this is no comment on the rest of Thearender . I like Ioannis work and it´s quite remarkable that the IA preview is so slow and limited (caustic, light through glass etc missing) while the renderer can do it quite fast. Currently it makes more sense to adjust in wireframe mode and make fast test renders then using the newly implemented preview.

Disclaimer: I had just as little time as other people to try it out so didn´t tune settings or whatever. It´s just the out of the box demo scene experience. Maybe the next update of Thea will make it usuable but at the moment I can´t imagine people working with it.

[max3d]

BE AWARE: PS II: I WILL UPDATE THESE CAPS LATER WHEN I HAVE ALL THE RESULTS OF THE NEWLY SUGGESTED SETTINGS BY THE THEA DEVELOPERS. I ALREADY CAN ASSURE EVERYONE THAT THE IA RENDERER HAS MUCH POTENTIAL THEN IS SHOWN BELOW.

A series of screenshots of TheaRender Interactive Preview versus the TR1 unbiased renderer. Taken at 5 secs, typical IA first glance, 35s. acceptable to judge complex material behaviour before committing and 2m35 to see how much solutions improve if left alone for some time.

First a screenshot of the Thea IA preview after 5 seconds


Followed by a screenshot of the Thea render interface after 5 seconds (actually four as you can see)


Now a series of selection with only the output window shown.

First the IA after 5s


The renderer (TR1 see at top unless otherwise mentioned) after 5s


IA after 35s


Renderer @35s


IA does it converge @2m35s? NO


Renderer @2m35s


And just for the fun of it a comparison with the renderer with it´s TR2 algorithm @2m35s


I think no further explanation is needed. If you wonder why I changed the default scene a bit that´s obvious as I wanted to see what would happen at the intersection of glass and straw when it went through. Not only the caustics but the shadow of glass on straw.

And why does it changes sometimes a tiny bit? That´s because it´s quite hard to make sure the renderer and primarily the preview renderer doesn´t precalculate solutions which it reuses. Simply starting and stopping didn´t seem to work similar to either zooming or moving the straw a bit so to be sure I did it.

I also noticed that after stopping the normal renderer the interface becomes real sluggish. The reason is that in the background the IA renderer kicks in again without any explicit instruction. You have to manually stop it after doing a normal render even when you already stopped it before switching to the render which I always did.

Maybe there are much better settings which I just couldn´t find. I tested a lot of non published workflows and built in render modes and these seemed the best to compare.

My conclusion will be clear. I´m quite certain that the maxwell preview will be much better in quality and usability. Usability because the IA preview will converge to a the normal render output. Quality because from the preview of the mx preview it´s clear that you get fast feedback on material and light interaction, one of the main reasons for an IA renderer.

Max

p.s. I have left them completely unedited to give the best possible information. However it´s best to open the screenshots and adjust them to see a lot more detail.

PS II: I WILL UPDATE THESE CAPS LATER WHEN I HAVE ALL THE RESULTS OF THE NEWLY SUGGESTED SETTINGS BY THE THEA DEVELOPERS.

[Maximus3D]

Keep in mind that this first previewengine that Thea got is not fully evolved and matured yet. It's just a baby at the moment, much like (i guess) Maxwell's Preview Thingy will be once it's released in it's first version. Bugs, issues, limitations and other problems will exist for quite some time. It's no more than a indicator of which direction things are heading now.

/ Magnus

[max3d]

Keep in mind that this first previewengine that Thea got is not fully evolved and matured yet. It's just a baby at the moment, much like (i guess) Maxwell's Preview Thingy will be once it's released in it's first version. Bugs, issues, limitations and other problems will exist for quite some time. It's no more than a indicator of which direction things are heading now.

/ Magnus

Hi other Max, good to see you again

I already posted a strong disclaimer so I didn´t think I had to repeat that, but if people want to know: the disclaimer goes for every evaluation I ever make. Things can change, there are alpha builds, beta builds, unmentionable things like RC´s, 1.0 releases etc. Things can always change in any direction. Furthermore every impression, measurement or qualification is only based on a the specific combination of hardware, software, scene and expectations at the time of the test. Last but not least I have great respect for every programmer who comes up with a fresh and innovative approach to render technology. That goes for all of them as long as they developed it themselves instead of buying it off the shelf as some major players unfortunately do.

I didn´t think I ever needed to say these things on a forum, but the world has changed a lot in the last few years if I look at the reactions. Fanboyism has become a strong force and open debate is apparently misinterpreted as having an agenda. Let me assure everyone that I have never had an agenda (i have a good memory and am sloppy anyway ) Neither am I paid to promote whatever or have a problem with any sincere developer. I hope I don´t need to put this into my sig. It would spoil the fun.

Maximus why did you feel the need to put this in? We have always judged products as they were presented, not just on their future potential, but also on their current performance. You were very positive about Thea´s IA, I expect (yes, an expectation) more from NL and I have already seen working versions of better IA. Your post suggested that Thea was on the right way, I counter that my preference (yes thats personal again) is for a converging IA renderer and according to NL this is what they will offer. Why would I doubt them if they state so?

Max.

my god, I could as well start discussing politics or religions if every post needs to be a complete essay instead of just a report on some fact finding.

[Reaversword]

Well, the pdf about realtime preview was published at the end of July, and now we're near half september. We could read there that Next Limit expects to have the Realtime Preview finished in a couple of months.

How the thing goes?. More bugs/issues than expected?. Or all like planned?.

[Jan]

Max3d, to see the water properly you should increase the depth trace setting to something like 20.

Regards

[Bubbaloo]

Oops, I came here looking for Maxwell interactive preview info. I must have been redirected.

[SandroS]

Maybe there are much better settings which I just couldn´t find

you think? i really didn't want my first post here to be negative but some posts just can't be ignored. i have both Thea and Maxwell and can honestly say that they are both outstanding engines that have different strengths and weaknesses.

for the record, to see clear water and caustics in your example:

1. switch to Unbiased mode (MC engine)
2. check the 'Enable Caustics' box
3. increase the tracing depth to something around 20

why have these settings? so that you can change the quality/speed ratio depending on how fast you need feedback (setup vs final render).

[samsam]

+1 SandroS

Both these fantastic products (maxwell & thea) need to little time to get to grips with. Personally I think Thea renderer is slightly easier to control than Maxwell especially when it comes to creating materials. On the other hand the Thea Studio interface is not as mature as Maxwell's. However the pace of Thea's development is impressive.