[michaelplogue]

Michael you know, I can't say you're wrong, you can't say I'm wrong.

You're wrong! (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

You are absolutely right. I do love the output that I can get with MR, and I especially enjoy the ease of use. I'm not looking for 'toon' or x-ray shaders, and I know that other renderers are better suited for those funky non-realistic type images.

I guess my main point is that there is nothing clearly stated - in writing - that says what the 'final' release of MR will actually consist of. I want to have a checklist of everything that is supposed to be included, so I can mark off each item as they are released. I believe that I am well within my rights to require that from NL - especially at this stage of the game. I expect to get what I paid for. If I buy a pair of running shoes, I expect them to come with shoe laces......

Can I use MR as it stands now? Yes

Have I been using MR ? Yes, exclusively.

Can I do everything in MR that I want, or should be able to do? No.

Now, granted that I don't do Archvis, or product visualization like the majority of MR users. So my approach is probably very different than the average Joe/Jane. My focus is to capture a mood. One of the things I really like about MR is it's extreme ease of use. When inspiration hits me, it allows me to be creative without having to worry about technical details. However, when I hit a technical wall, I have to stop and try to develop a workaround. By the time I have something figured out, my inspiration has left.

Volume fog is a perfect example. We used to have volume fog back in the day. It worked. It was part of the package I bought into. Now where is it? It's been around two years since that feature has been deactivated. Two years.......... There were so many projects I wanted to do using volume fog, that I eventually had to come up with my own work-around. It's not perfect, but it's sufficient. For quite a while, I've also been wanting to use volumetric lighting. I never got the chance to try this when we had volume fog, so I don't know if it worked then (I'm guessing that it probably did). Unfortunately, my fog trick does not work at all for creating this effect. So guess what.... I have to stop what I'm doing and try to come up with another technique.

Camera motion blur. We had it, then we didn't. Now we have to apply motion blur to our entire scene, and animate it around the camera - instead of the other way around.

Z-depth: Holy-cow, how hard can this be?

Glass. All I can say (and I apologize for the language) is WTF? How long has MR been around? And glass still doesn't work correctly? I'm sure they've got some really brilliant guys over there, sitting around thinking about brilliant things all day. Can't they get all these folks together at the same time and figure this one out? Could someone please explain what the problem is? I just don't get it......

Displacement. I'm pretty sure this was on the original list. Hello....??? All the cool kids are doing it...... Heck, all the un-cool kids are doing it....

Light analysis tool: I'd never use it myself (at least for now), but it was one of the things originally promised. Haven't seen even an attempt done for this......

Regarding shift lenses, micro-displacement, texture baking, clouds, and other things on the wish-list: These items weren't on the original list, so I'm not expecting them. Nor did I expect Studio, MXED, Glare, or Multilight. As far as I'm concerned, those were freebees. NL was under no obligation to provide them, as they weren't on the original list. Not that I don't appreciate having them (though I only really use ML). Had I been in their shoes, I would have saved those for Version 2. I would have rather had them spend their time on just the core and plugins - what was originally promised.

..and the ones who are most obsessive seem to be the ones who are most disappointed! The only time some people post ANYTHING on this forum is when they get a chance to voice their disappointment, and why and so on....but when they DO post, it's 5 nanoseconds after the opportunity has revealed itself

I hope that wasn't directed at me. I'd like to think that I've tried to be pretty helpful around here for the most part.....

Anyway, I'm tired. It's past my bed-time.

Peace out!

[Mihai]

No, it wasn't in any way directed at you. This software development biz is a complicated beast. Not made easier by the fact that in many areas where NL is developing there aren't hundreds of research papers and demonstrations already done, and it's not a 'fixed' problem like lets say a polygon slice tool in a modeling app where you pretty much know what you need to do, you just need the time to do it.

So the question, why was feature X in before, now it isn't, the case may be it didn't work too well with another feature, or it wasn't adequate and too slow. So instead of trying to work very hard sometimes to keep compatibility with a feature that wasn't adequate from the beginning, and waste time with that, there are other areas which need time as well, which become a priority. I wouldn't say the Multi light feature for example is simply 'ok', it's pretty damn cool. Ask most users on this forum which they would have preferred, fog or multi light....but then, why not have both? The answer to that and many similar questions can be so intricate I wouldn't even want to know. It's really, more info than I'm interested in. We can speculate all we want, but it's not like the developers say, lets remove this feature, cause I can't find where to put it in the UI. We'll make a button for the next version.

Sometimes development goes fast, and you see 5-10 features boom, like it's nothing and other times it goes slower, seemingly nothing is happening . Again, why it's like this doesn't mean the developers have run out of ideas or they are on vacation but sometimes the work being done doesn't necessarily result in a new feature, but works as an improved base to later add features in a more steady flow. And then perhaps again, you see a slower period (seen from the outside)......what I don't understand is why some people aren't aware of this yet, using various softwares for so long. Zbrush 3?......

Further what I don't understand is the will to create a sort of panic, always a panic, with every little announcement. We now have people panicking about when the next newsletter is going to be released. It was due yesterday....what's going on???? Why no newsletter???........I mean, come on...

My theory, every "traditional" feature, like sss, displacement, volumetrics and so on, something already present in other renderers for a long time...together with Maxwell don't make you think, ok finally Maxwell has sss, but how amazingly cool that sss will look IN Maxwell. So I can understand very well the anticipation, but turning that into panic and disappointment I don't understand. It's like if Maxwell was just another GI photon, FG, renderer, nobody would start panicking and survey the forum and post immediately about why a newsletter hasn't been released exactly on time...

You think I'm not dying to see a good sss solution in Maxwell? I'm not saying I'm taking things cool, laid back....I'm having dreams about it
But, I will not behave in a way that just creates panic, scrutinize every little comment and statement made. It's just a matter of respect I guess, for the people who made this renderer in the first place, without which I would still be messing with Mental Rays mental parameters trying to go for the "least disappointing" look...I'm sorry, I don't have 20 shader writers with PHDs at my disposal.

[pluMmet]

As for other software companies similar to NL, I have no idea.

Unfortunately all that means is that most people here are operating on a knowledge base that you are unaware of.

That might explain any tension you might be having with some

If responding to your insult would benefit the members of this Forum, I would do so.
But it wouldn't.
So I'll go do something else with both my brain cells.

ps I love the irony of *not responding* with a new post.

Forgive me for making you feel insulted I was just trying to help you understand why your thoughts might not be met in the way you are expecting. different wavelengths as it were

love.peace.and chicken grease.
Peace in the middle east.

[Maximus3D]

Time flies when having fun ehh.. now that we been arguing here for a whole week tomorrow Friday is here yet again and we should recieve some more news. I hope...

/ Max

[lllab]

well my favorite wish is in:-)

cheers
stefan

[Q2]

THAT's what I am waiting for! NEWS!

[Hybaj]

I remember in the first days of Maxwell there was already a japanese version of the site. I was like hmm is there a specific reason to have it in japanese or maybe there are some japanese guy/s working on the maxwell too??

I'm just killing time in between lectures Heh

[glypticmax]

Unfortunately all that means is that most people here are operating on a knowledge base that you are unaware of.

That might explain any tension you might be having with some

If responding to your insult would benefit the members of this Forum, I would do so.
But it wouldn't.
So I'll go do something else with both my brain cells.

ps I love the irony of *not responding* with a new post.

Forgive me for making you feel insulted I was just trying to help you understand why your thoughts might not be met in the way you are expecting. different wavelengths as it were

love.peace.and chicken grease.
Peace in the middle east.

Thank you for clearing this up, Eric. I appreciate it.
Peace, Love and Understanding. I'm all for it.
Maybe if you had been a bit more informative in your post, it wouldn't have appeared to just be a 'dis. I posted specific examples of successful software packages that I am familiar with in the field of modeling and rendering that manage their information in different ways. McNeel and Maxon are highly regarded by their customers.
My point was there are different solutioins for different situations. And NL is using the solution they believe suits them best. Would I like to know more, sooner about Maxwell V1.5. Sure. Can I understand NL's inclination not to announce too much before the release date. Yes.
I've run my own business for 28 years, and have learned the hard way its sometimes best to play it close to the vest. I'm not surprised NL's experience has taught them some similar lessons.
When Maxwell was in the early stages a friend showed me the promotional material. I told him it was "Hogwash" and there was no way they could pull off what they were claiming. I simply didn't believe it. He bought in early and maintains a slow burn. I waited until V1 was released, and knew what I was buying. I'm a happy camper.
I look forward to the time when Maxwell fulfills the expectations they created early on. Until then, I appreciate any improvements that come my way.

[Renato Lemus]

I really think we'll get an impressive update. It must be. If not, having another unbiased renderer in the market with an impressive list of features already and in beta stage, the future of maxwell render is not clear. And people at NL know, and that's the good thing about competence.
So, I'm confident that we'll get a great update.

[pluMmet]

Maybe if you had been a bit more informative in your post, it wouldn't have appeared to just be a 'dis.

Not exactly my mistake because we all are trying not to slam any other software into any ones face.

Though perhaps my fault none the less. I wish I could be as suave as 007 but it's just not in the cards

[lllab]

feature lists alone do not make something good.

look in the internet and you will see that the most crappy renderengines have very very impressive feature lists....

as for the "other" unbiased, it is good and has some nice features that mw doesnt have, and misses some nice features mw already has. so for me there is no clear "winner", and nobody will go out of buidness because of the other. i own, like and use both...it is more a sign of where tha market will go, and mw was first to introduce such kind of engines and is definitly on the very unbiased side(in a sense i like)

cheers
stefan

[Boris Ulzibat]

Offtopic about announcing features, development progress etc.


There are two things one must know to be successful:

1) Never tell people everything you know.
2) .......



Peace!

[NicoR44]

2) .......

[glypticmax]

Maybe if you had been a bit more informative in your post, it wouldn't have appeared to just be a 'dis.

Not exactly my mistake because we all are trying not to slam any other software into any ones face.

Though perhaps my fault none the less. I wish I could be as suave as 007 but it's just not in the cards

Ah, the fog is lifting.
So you intentionally made a post, which would in your mind, subtely compared Maxwell to Fryrender. But, you were clever enough not to mention Fryrender. Wow! What an intellect.
And the number of converts to your cause must be between 0 and 1.
I think there is another word for that technique, and it rhymes with "roll".
Hey, I can be sublte and clever too.
I see this Forum as a place to learn and share in a way that benefits the other members that use and rely on Maxwell Render. You seem to have a completelly different concept.
I think you've officially graduated to my "Do Not Respond List".
I wish you all the luck in the world.

[paxreid]

Jesus man..just let it go. How many times can two people say I am sorry without a snide reply.....lets get back to talking about MR.