[acquiesse]

The secret is to get angry at the programs maybe.

I find physical violence the only way to get them to obey... They only understand fear

[Polyxo]

Yes, I knew about these customizing options. Cinema allows alot, but it is e.g. not possible to map pan to RMB.

This can be done. Right click the right mouse button twice very quickly in the bottom field where it says "ASSIGN" to map it to that button when you are in the command manager. It took me a bit to figure this out because it kept bringing up the right click menu. I got angry and started clicking very fast and it worked. So that would=not intuative. The secret is to get angry at the programs maybe.

Hi Eric,
sorry, I meant rotate camera (to mimic Rhino in a perspective viewport) not pan. It is possible to assign it with your brute force method, but will not work. I used the demo of 10.0.

Edit: It worked after reopening the program.

Holger

[Thomas An.]

However, I have the same problem when using Maya. So much so that I don't use it at all. Not an intuitive interface, niether is 3DSMax imho.

I'm sure the first incarnations of all 3D apps, were intuitive.
But the more additions that appear with each new release, remove that initial intuitiveness.

Yup, same here (hence the ongoing discussion on UIs) ... tried Maya (no go) ... tried 3ds (no go) ... seems like I am destined to be a one-trick pony with Rhino (haven't tried modo, or Solidworks yet).

[Thomas An.]

Forcing designs, no matter how good-intentioned, on the user will only provide frustration.

You could be right on this.

So...the three most important things are:

> Use a Main menu: it is the user's permanent 'home base'
> Implement scriptability: allow the user to access functionality directly
> Provide user-configurable docking toolbars: allow the user to make use of the scriptability

Yes, this is a good framework. It is a good idea to carry over some conventions and controls of the host OS environment due to user familiarity with it (and for the sake of uniformity).

Someone else's idea of perfect will almost never resemble yours...in most cases it will be repulsive to you.

A sensible observation.

[Eric Lagman]

Edit: It worked after reopening the program.

Holger

Yes I forgot to mention that you have to close the program down, and relaunch it for this one particular button to work. What a pain just to map the right mouse click huh Glad you got it to work though. Sorry to hijak your thread Thomas. Thats all I have to say about Cinama and keymapping.

Thomas I am interested to hear what you have to say about Solidworks. The default icon size and placement is a bit silly and set up for novices. They can be changed to your preference though as far as size and the wording below them. Also some of the commands are not included in the default toolbars. Just go to tools customize, and drag them directly from there to the toolbar you want. I dont think there is a downloadable demo for that I could find, but it looks like they will send you a free demo cd. It is a fairly large program. If I remember correctly around 800mb before instillation. http://mkt.solidworks.com/emarketing_en ... ew&SWERF=1

[JDHill]

I'll chime in here...I installed SW Personal Edition (trial) in 2005...I couldn't stand it. Not because of the gaudy UI...the sketch-based approach just drives me nuts, although I love the constraints (the CosmosWorks demo was super-cool too). I tried the SW trial, because I own Alibre (a $500 SW knock-off), and I wanted to see if SW would be alot better. After trying it, I decided it wasn't worth the extra $$$ for me...I still get about an email a week from my local SW reseller.

In the end, Rhino's 'free-er'model just makes it too fast for me to want to use a parametric modeller...unless I really need to verify the motion. Alot of times, I'll still prefer Rhino, and just do some dynamic rotation around key points instead of trying to work in Alibre. I only use that if I absolutely need multiple simultaneous constraints.

[Eric Lagman]

In the end, Rhino's 'free-er'model just makes it too fast for me to want to use a parametric modeller...unless I really need to verify the motion. Alot of times, I'll still prefer Rhino, and just do some dynamic rotation around key points instead of trying to work in Alibre. I only use that if I absolutely need multiple simultaneous constraints.

I agree I find Rhino more fun and free. It just depends on what you need to do. If I only had to do concept modelling every day I would use Rhino. My job is too much design engineering where a parametric feature tree is a must have. We have some customers that use Alibre, but I have never tried it. I heard it was just a cheaper knock off of Solidworks like you said.

Since solidworks 2006 you can do all of your sketching in one 3d sketch and create multiple features from this. Before you had to make a sketch for each loft guide, and each profile of the loft. Now all that can be done in one 3d sketch which is in a way like Rhino. 2007 also has a new freeform surface where you can push and pull points, but it is severly limited at this point because you can only use it on 4 sided surfaces. They claim they plan to make it work for any type of surface in the future.

The tradeoff for a parametric modeller vs something like Rhino is you spend a more time upfront creating surfaces and solids than you would in Rhino. The advantage is when you have to change something in your model that you did earlier all of your model reacts and updates accordingly. With clients there is always lots of changes that is just the way it is. A design is always in flux.

I totally agree that Solidworks has childlike windows xp icons that need to be redone. Its just the best thing out there for the price and type of work I do. It has become the industry standard for a mid range cad application replacing apps like Pro-E. Back in 1999 when I first started using it was way worse than it is now. Although the funny thing is it was more stable back then. Sheesh I sound like a fanboy don't I. Show me the next best thing though and I will jump ship in a second is my attitude.

[Thomas An.]

In the end, Rhino's 'free-er'model just makes it too fast for me to want to use a parametric modeller...unless I really need to verify the motion. Alot of times, I'll still prefer Rhino, and just do some dynamic rotation around key points instead of trying to work in Alibre. I only use that if I absolutely need multiple simultaneous constraints.

Jeremy,

Thank you for the insider view ! ... this type of review is what kind of made me not too eager to try SW in the past.

[Mihai]

One of the most overwhelming advantages SW has over Rhino is complete construction history. Change any part of the design at any time and the whole construction stack updates. Although I really don't get some of the designs of the UI. Many things just take up too much space. I haven't used it long enough to learn more about customization though.

For quick concept modeling and even more I find MoI a very nice new tool. The quad poly export feature alone is worth looking into. It outputs a really clean and efficient mesh for rendering.

[Thomas An.]

One of the most overwhelming advantages SW has over Rhino is complete construction history. Change any part of the design at any time and the whole construction stack updates. Although I really don't get some of the designs of the UI. Many things just take up too much space. I haven't used it long enough to learn more about customization though.

For quick concept modeling and even more I find MoI a very nice new tool. The quad poly export feature alone is worth looking into. It outputs a really clean and efficient mesh for rendering.

Thanks Mihai,

Yeah, I know about the benefits of parametrics ... but they can also be a pain, especially since I am now used to freestyle surface modeling.
It wasn't really the intention to move away from Rhino ... but to look a little in the world of mesh modeling (that was the idea with Blender anyway ...)

Incidentally .... MoI ... is being designed by Michael Gibson (the original Rhino inventor/developer)

[Polyxo]

I still highly recommend Silo for Rhino-users. There are other very powerful programs, but this one is nothing but a modeller. Nothing else included (no rendering, no animation...) , which could get in the way for those want to do their first steps in mesh-based modeling. The huge packages very often work with parametric "modifiers/deformers", which are great for animation, but complicate the workflow without a reason, for those who only want to output stills. Here Silo is like Rhino. With no feature tree and no modifier stack but just straight forward. Appart from that, the program is the master of customizabilty. Of course there are big differences between a NurbsModeler and a SubdModeler. But I got this program to act as much as possible like Rhino (Navigation [mouse functionality], Shade-Modes, keyboard-shortcuts).

[michaelplogue]

Thomas - Didn't you jump in on the Hexagon deal that Daz3d had a while back?

[Eric Lagman]

For quick concept modeling and even more I find MoI a very nice new tool. The quad poly export feature alone is worth looking into. It outputs a really clean and efficient mesh for rendering.

Mihai,

I played around with this also and thought it was pretty cool. I did try the quad mesh output, and it works well like you said for rendering. I wanted to see if I could take the quad model into cinema 4d and deform it etc, but that doesnt work at all. Do you know of any programs that can take either a polygon mesh, or Paramatric model and convert it to quads you can work with in say cinema 4d or max. I heard Zbrush has a triangles to quad feature, but I thought I remember reading it does not work so well all the time. Thanks in advance if anyone knows the anwer to this.

[Mihai]

It doesn't work because some of the edges are separate? I mean it breaks apart when you try and deform the whole mesh? Does C4D have a weld feature? That might help, you could give it a pretty high tolerance for welding without it changing too much your geometry.

[Thomas An.]

Thomas - Didn't you jump in on the Hexagon deal that Daz3d had a while back?

No, I didn't... there was a Poser deal somewhere that I tried to download (but the server was busy at the time) ... then I forgot about it; I am not sure where I put that link ... should be floating somewhere in some mailbox..

Is this "hexagon" thing any good ?