Please post here anything else (not relating to Maxwell technical matters)
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By tom
#186960
Mihai wrote:You mean play the same song she's playing? I have no idea why you'd think that :) She's not playing endless riffs...
Yes, it seems like you're unheard of John, enough. :) ..and the video I've sent was just taken from and exercise video which you can't summarize the guy with. The one who knows DT knows what I say. John is on tour with Satriani and Vai and teaching at Berklee, he's one old fart not even needed to compare, my bad. :D
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By glebe digital
#186963
In classical 'guitar' music, I think the Art comes from A: the composor and B: the interpretation of the talent/artist.
Without that equal mix of elements the music can sound still and lifeless. Technique is just the way to get there, once the music is assimilated technique is forgotten and the music is unleashed in a pure 'emotive' way from the artist/interprettor.
I think that's my point with this very talented young lady, she's not at that pure interpretive stage yet.

I don't like 'shreds' and 'licks' for their own sake......regardless of how impressive the technique is.........there has to be something more than playing around with new angles on the Lydian scale. :)
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By tom
#186966
glebe, I'm having an impression here like you mean John could be shredding and he's trapped around Lydian scale? Ooopps... if so, may the community forgive you :D
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By Mihai
#186970
Well I looked around youtube and all I could find so far is just that :)
It's usually impressive when you see someone play fast, but playing fast, with very difficult chords and not making one mistake...that's another level to me.
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By glebe digital
#186972
tom wrote:glebe, I'm having an impression here like you mean John could be shredding and he's trapped around Lydian scale? Ooopps... if so, may the community forgive you :D
:lol: :lol:
Not quite, I'm talking generalities.........the likes of Vai, Satriani et al seem to go through periodical 'love affairs' with either a particular technique or scale system, then bring out an album based around it. That's probably just as unfair to say I guess..........Bach invented a modal approach to music based on the latest technology too [tempered instruments].......maybe there's nothing new under the sun.......although Bach's music was totally 'new' whereas 'diva guitar rock' hasn't changed much in twenty years :)
By Miles
#186984
glebe digital wrote:.......although Bach's music was totally 'new'...
Why, "totally 'new'"?
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By glebe digital
#186988
Miles wrote:
glebe digital wrote:.......although Bach's music was totally 'new'...
Why, "totally 'new'"?
Before Bach's era, there was no 'tempered' scale [12-note octave scale with equal spacing] only pure Pythagorean tones [based on the pure 3rd, 4th and 5th] were considered 'music'........Bach effectively threw away the Pythagorean system and wrote music based on the new mathematical principles that still govern music today.
By Miles
#186990
glebe digital wrote:
Miles wrote:
glebe digital wrote:.......although Bach's music was totally 'new'...
Why, "totally 'new'"?
Before Bach's era, there was no 'tempered' scale [12-note octave scale with equal spacing] only pure Pythagorean tones [based on the pure 3rd, 4th and 5th] were considered 'music'........Bach effectively threw away the Pythagorean system and wrote music based on the new mathematical principles that still govern music today.
Not quite :)

'There are references to 'equal' temperament (12th comma meantone) from the Renaissance period.

1/4 & 1/6 comma meantone and their variants were the most commonly used temeraments, together with various 'regular' temperaments which closed the circle of keys with various distributions of the total error.

Have you ever heard anything tuned in Pythagorean temperament :shock:

It's not at all clear exactly what Bach's 'well temperament' was, but it's not very likely that it was straight equal temperament.
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By glebe digital
#186995
It's an interesting topic Miles. :)
Well the renaissance Lute for example, was/is a tempered instrument but was considered 'base' and impure due to it's un-pythagorean tuning.
Yes the pure 3rd, 4th, 5th etc didn't work properly [like ptolemaic astonomy for instance] and as such 'fixes' were applied to make it more usable as a system.........keyboards with a fantastical array of keys were devised to allow for 'purer' intervals in the music of the day. This is why stringed instruments eventually took off in classical music, they were in-effect tempered.
It took Bach to break down the wall....that's all I'm trying to say really. :)
By Miles
#187004
glebe digital wrote:It's an interesting topic Miles. :)
:D

You can have pure 5ths or you can have pure 3rds, but you can't have both at the same time (on a fixed pitch instrument).

The interval of the 3rd became more important hence the rise of meantone.

The need for freedom of key choice, together with the development of more complex harmony, lead to 1/5th, 1/6th, 1/7th, 1/8th comma meantone and to the various irregular temeraments.

Bach's contributions were part of this continuum, I think it's a bit excessive to say that he "broke down the wall" :)

Equal temperament is the ultimate bodge - it sort of works on the piano, because of the relative lack of high harmonics. On earlier keyboard instruments it sounds dreadful.
By mtripoli
#187006
Wow... this is a great conversation... so many questions have been raised... one that I would like to address; the "beauty" of music... what is about one melody or another that appeals to people?

This has been questioned in what is "beautiful" when looking at the human face. A study that I read a number of years ago postulated that the more symmetrical a face, the more it is considered "beautiful", and had examples of movie stars. If you take the picture of the face of many of these people, cut it in half and mirror it, you will find that there is very little difference between that and their "normal" picture... it was concluded that we are just "hardwired" for this.

Over the ages, music has come under the same scrutiny. As mentioned, equal tempered scales don't "sound very good"; to our ear, they are dissonant and unappealing. In the middle ages, the "tritone" was considered the "devil in music"...

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/harmony/tritone.html


It's interesting to note that so much of what we hear and is acceptable to our ears is based on geographical location. Indian music is instantly identifiable, and to many westerners sounds "odd" (I find it quite beautiful and calming)... see the following:

http://www.chandrakantha.com/articles/scales.html

Many people used to listening to "pop" music will find it very hard to "get their ears around" musicians such as Thelonious Monk. His music is a perfect example of "playing outside" the key. Westerners insist on hearing chords resolved - funny actually that this has such an impact on a listeners.

As for guitar, as you know ( :wink: ), the guitar, as commonly known is impossible to tune correctly without slight modification. A guy I knew in California came up with a technique to solve this issue. Though some manufacturers use it, it is still relatively unknown:

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/index.htm

Now, back to throwing out names... along the way you "metal heads" (no, no the ones with metal plates in their heads, or the ones that wear tin-foil hats) will remember one of the lesser known but amazingly influential guitarists of the last 30 years: Uli Jon Roth. Uli was most notably the guitarist in the Scorpions and went onto a solo career. He designed many "Sky Guitars". These had as many as 42 frets!

http://www.edenwaith.com/uliroth/music/skyguitar.html

So much of this conversation is really based around the argument of "technique"... I like to think of technique this way: it is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Too many of the "shredders" out there forgot this... technique is not about how fast you can go up and down the neck, how well you kow the neck or anything like that. It's about being able to convey a musical idea to another. If you are succesful at that, you have done all you can...

I had a guitar teacher (a brilliant guitarist in California named George Cole). He once told me (as a 16 year old know it all); There are only three reasons to take the guitar out of the case: (1) To learn something (2) To have some fun (3) To make some money. If it doesn't fall into one of those, it's a waste of time. When you think about it, these same rules can be applied to many things in our lives...

In the words of the late, great FZ: "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar"...
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