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Before I would upgrade

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:01 pm
by wagurto
I need to know if some of the more common problems are fixed on v2. before upgrade. The upgrade price it a little high for me. I need to be sure that I am paying of a product that is complete and fully functional. This are my prioroties:
-Is glass / sun fixed? or do we still need to use ASG?
-Is the intersecting instanced face issue fixed?
-Is Studio estable?
-Is Revit imported models and use instancing option fixed?
-Are all the materials form v.1 compatible with v2?

I hope I can get answers to these question before I commit to upgrade. I saw a lot of this questions on this forum without any direct answer.
Thanks

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:06 pm
by Mihnea Balta
wagurto wrote: -Is Revit imported models and use instancing option fixed?
If you mean the problem with Revit instances in Max which have incorrect positions in the render, no, that's not fixed and it will never be, because it's a Max limitation, not a plug-in or Maxwell bug.

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:10 pm
by shen.de
from my "upgrade-experiences" since early beta I would recommend to wait some days till all the bugs come out...

usually the forum is full of little problems which be solved after that...

I did this once in the RC phase and never again... nothing worse than not be able to finish a project because of an update...


greets

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:14 pm
by ezmerel2
rom my "upgrade-experiences" since early beta I would recommend to wait some days till all the bugs come out...

usually the forum is full of little problems which be solved after that...

I did this once in the RC phase and never again... nothing worse than not be able to finish a project because of an update...
indeed.
nothing worse than that.
its rather strange no answers have appeared about the intersecting instance deal...
wait some time before spending more money here.

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:26 pm
by Richard
I've been asking similar questions with no answer from NL or testers! So i'd assume no the bugs AREN'T fixed!

I'm not so worried about sun through glass AGS does me fine but instancing or the lack of it is driving me mad! For me it seems so often NL do this - provide new features without actually ever making the old ones functional! It seems an attitude that suggests they consider new features will attract customers, forgetting that those same possible customers read plenty of the issues existing users are having.

I myself have seen plenty of early users just give up!

For me maxwell is favoured as it is easy to use and great results but dam I see everyday other apps that are getting close to the same results and most often without the issues of non functional functionality!

Answers???

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:41 pm
by CRAS
Hello Richard,

agree...

I´m not that upset just because NL didn´t prepare for the run on the download server. That´s just typical.
It´s more the concentration of bad deja vue´s I have with this company again and again.
Maxwell 1.7 was more or less what I expected from 1.0. 2.0 at least seems to be what should have been there for 1.5...
And I´m afraid 2.0 again will not be above 50% of what it could be.

I just want to get out of this train asap and again concentrate on earning some money.
Hope that Modo will fill the gap.
At least they are professionals so I don´t have this bad feeling of waisting my time completely senseless.

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:05 pm
by wagurto
Thanks Mihnea for your reply. But I still have doubts, how come all other render engines that I uses doesn't have a problem with this issue. Vray render fine with the instance on. Fry render doesn't have problems with revit models on max. Why Maxwell fails and you tell me that's a Max issue?
thanks

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:27 am
by Mihnea Balta
Because most likely they don't render those objects as instances, but as real geometry. Maxwell works too if you uncheck "use instancing".

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 pm
by ezmerel2
Because most likely they don't render those objects as instances, but as real geometry. Maxwell works too if you uncheck "use instancing".
"most likely"?
what sort of research have you done to make this assertion sir?

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:36 pm
by NicoR44
That's why he says "most likely" and not just "because" simple.

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:28 pm
by Mihnea Balta
ezmerel2 wrote: "most likely"?
what sort of research have you done to make this assertion sir?
I have "researched" the Max SDK and noticed that it has a bug (or limitation, whatever you want to call it) in that it reports those objects as being instances, when in fact they aren't. I looked at what mental ray does (which is integrated into Max by Autodesk), and saw that it exports those objects as real geometry. I barely touched Vray a few times in my life, but as far as I recall, Vray doesn't treat Max instances as render instances at all, you have to use its special proxy objects to get instancing (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no idea what Fry does, but if you know, please tell me.

We've looked into detecting when Max lies, that is, when objects say that they are instances but actually aren't. We couldn't find an easy way; we're not Autodesk and we don't have the source code to Max, which makes some things slightly less trivial than it was for them when they integrated mental ray. However, we didn't invest too much time into it, since all you have to do to fix it is uncheck "use instancing" in the renderer options. There have been more important matters to take care of than this; things which can't be fixed with a simple checkbox, and which would have generated much bigger problems and complaints if they weren't addressed.

We can change the default of "use instancing" to off. We can even add a plug-in option where you can pick the default for that flag in newly created scenes, so that people who use Revit geometry a lot don't have to bother unchecking the box every time they make a scene. It just never occurred to me that it's so important that it can prevent people from upgrading to Maxwell 2.

If I had all the time and resources in the world, I'd make sure no checkboxes have to be touched unless absolutely necessary; if the plug-in can detect something automatically, it should do so, not require the user to set it up. However, I don't have unlimited time and resources, so I'd rather add, say, realtime preview for color correction in the viewport than worry about a checkbox.

When I said it will never be fixed, I meant those things will never render as instances. When we have time, we'll make another attempt at auto-detecting bogus instances. If we figure it out and it doesn't require 15 hacks and 3 months of development time to implement it, we'll release a plug-in update so you won't have to uncheck the box by hand anymore, and I won't have to document my sub-par research efforts in public.

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:37 pm
by mverta
Mihnea, you remain a God among men. If they only knew :)


_Mike

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:06 pm
by Fernando Tella
That sounds like a good answer to me.

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:43 pm
by NicoR44
yep 8)

Re: Before I would upgrade

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:34 pm
by JTB
I have Max design 2010 and Revit Arch 2010 and there is no problem with MW1.7... I guess there will be none with MW2.0
So, go and upgrade you Max and let NL team worry about other important improvements and corrections...