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I promise, if this comes true, it will be my only wish (at least for a year).
BIASED Maxwell.

Let me explain...
I've been playing with Kerkythea Echo 2008, a great release of a very nice free rendering system

That's the key-phrase.... A rendering system.... Capable of nice quick images but with MLT algorithms it gives Maxwell quality (and rendering times too )

Also, features like Instancing brush (which I am sure you've thought about too) and fast material previews make the workflow even better.

Being a Maxwell-fanatic (although I am no expert user) I would like very much to be able to use Maxwell all the time even for the smallest job.
I think you have to reconsider about making some biased version of Maxwell...

You have the question and the answer.

If you owned a Ferrari, you would probably be writing letters to them asking them for better gas mileage!
A Ferrari is what it is, a gas guzzling, super-cool, rolling work of art...
Maxwell is what it is.
I suggest that if you own a Ferrari and want better gas milage, you should buy a much cheaper hybrid Toyota to park next to your Ferrari, and drive the one that you need to.

Bubbaloo wrote:If you owned a Ferrari, you would probably be writing letters to them asking them for better gas mileage!
A Ferrari is what it is, a gas guzzling, super-cool, rolling work of art...
Maxwell is what it is.
I suggest that if you own a Ferrari and want better gas milage, you should buy a much cheaper hybrid Toyota to park next to your Ferrari, and drive the one that you need to.

I don't want to make this a Maxwell-Kerkythea comparison... but I have to point the following...

1. I don't have to buy Kerkythea... It's Free.
2. Kerkythea can do Maxwell-like Renderings but can also make very good biased renderings with a simple Core 2 Duo...
3. Easy as Maxwell.
4. Simple but good UI for handling the model.
5. Complete and Powerful instances creation with a brush tool.

I am a Maxwell fanatic, I have never used another renderer since I bought Maxwell even if I have problem with deadlines.
I am a very happy customer of NL, I find the last release and the plugin very good. What I don't like is the extra money I have to spend for
2-3 Quads to render in reasonable times.

lol Maxwell like renders we must be looking at different things
cos they don't come close in my eyes

True, at least none of them have better looking images, even though certain works come close to mediocre Maxwell ones. I think biased rendering isn't as easy an appraoch as all the engine popping in recent times would make you believe.

Kerkythea can do Maxwell-like Renderings

Have you seen some renders that I have not?

You want to have your cake and eat it too...

I agree totally: having a biased version of Maxwell would be great. There was a thread somewhere around here where a surprising number of people stated that they used biased engines for work most of the time due to deadline constraints. I agree - being in the same boat.

If there were a Maxwell biased engine that could port over the same materials and same emitter setups I would be on it in a heart beat. Some jobs just don't allow for Maxwell time.

No one would expect it to look as good, but it could be comparable to Mental Ray or Vray and if the mats were ported over you could do only your "final" render in the biased engine.

So yeah, I want my cake and eat it too - but only because I'm tired of having to have pie instead all the time.


b

Bubbaloo wrote:

Kerkythea can do Maxwell-like Renderings

Have you seen some renders that I have not?

You want to have your cake and eat it too...

Maxwell-like renderings = Close to Maxwell quality or a nice Vray or Mental Ray quality with 1/30 of time.

Even if you have a sharp eye - I don't - (I am a civil engineer, I want to have the job done in time , I'm not a CG artist), even if you don't like the comparison between the two renderers, can you show me some images of Kerkythea's home page intro gallery, that you DON'T like?

Just to show you a very ugly but useful example....
1600X1200 veeeery biased but ONLY IN 5 MINUTES!!!

I will show a better version later.... with rendering times.



Imagine how much better it would bewith Maxwell

The Kerkythea gallery looks good, for a free render, but I can find a bunch of renders with radiosity-like artifacts and lack of dynamic.

When I evaluate a software 20-30% of what I look at is the output and the final image. If you work professional with 3D-graphics you can't just look at the output on the public gallerys. You have to look at the whole process, not only the result.

If you compare the complexity and quality in the maxwell gallery with the Kerkythea gallery, the maxwell images is way better in many cases.

But after 3 years of every day use with maxwell I cant come close to the maxwell gallery, and probably not because of my skills are too low (hopefully) but because of there are no projects I work with that gives space for the amount of time required to produce quality like that.

Everyone has to pick a software that fits in your every day work AND one of the most important thing for me, that gives me some challenge and some parts where I can improve my own skills.

pwrdesign wrote:The Kerkythea gallery looks good, for a free render, but I can find a bunch of renders with radiosity-like artifacts and lack of dynamic.

Of course, but you think that the client will find them too?
What I need is to use my favorite app (Maxwell) more and more, because I think it's the best....

When I evaluate a software 20-30% of what I look at is the output and the final image. If you work professional with 3D-graphics you can't just look at the output on the public gallerys. You have to look at the whole process, not only the result.

Yes, as I said I am not a CG artist, but I am equally important client for NL, that's why I started this discussion...

If you compare the complexity and quality in the maxwell gallery with the Kerkythea gallery, the maxwell images is way better in many cases.

Of course, that's why I pick Maxwell.... It's the best.... I don't want to critisize Maxwell, that's out of the question... I just want to make it more "every day's work" for my office....
Even now, I don't use another renderer, I can't...

Everyone has to pick a software that fits in your every day work AND one of the most important thing for me, that gives me some challenge and some parts where I can improve my own skills.

Correct, but it would be a big time saver to have one application that produces both "sample images" and "quality images".
Just think of how much time you spend with the "every day work" software. Materials, lights, etc.... You could do this only once. Get the final OK from the client and then produce the final images with just one click.

Maybe it cannot be done, maybe it is not a priority, maybe it won't happen because it is too difficult.....
I don't like the fact that NL doesn't want to make it.... Just like that.... no reasons!

Well there are no "one-click" softwares out there and there will never be I think, mostly since a software like that would be extremely static and booring.

I work with maxwell in all phases of the projects, from the easy 5 min low res sketch-renders to the final high end renders.

I wouldn't change one thing even if I could (of course there are minor things that can be enchanced, but thats wht this forum is for).

Of course I'm dependent of my renderfarm, since I often have to deliver 5-6 different views in a project, but it's definatly worth the investment for me.

JTB wrote: Imagine how much better it would be with Maxwell

This is a paradox and it's basically the point you're missing. Because unbiasedness is -although it's not the only factor- what makes a renderer 'Maxwell". When you take it out, you can't expect that quality anymore. It's why you can never have same quality with a biased Maxwell. There are numerous biased renderers around and you're free to render using any of them but it's not logical complaining about you don't have the same quality and wish Maxwell to be biased. Why do we have to we degrade something already better? No, we have at least 100x better plans to invest the valuable time in it. That's the reality.

tom wrote:

JTB wrote: Imagine how much better it would be with Maxwell

This is a paradox and it's basically the point you're missing. Because unbiasedness is -although it's not the only factor- what makes a renderer 'Maxwell". When you take it out, you can't expect that quality anymore. It's why you can never have same quality with a biased Maxwell. There are numerous biased renderers around and you're free to render using any of them but it's not logical complaining about you don't have the same quality and wish Maxwell to be biased. Why do we have to we degrade something already better? No, we have at least 100x better plans to invest the valuable time in it. That's the reality.

Thanks, Tom, I understand what you mean, I fully respect NL's choise, after all that's why we call it a wish.... I just want this to happen

Don't use the word complaining.... I don't complain, I just throw an idea on the table, which from marketing point of view, it is a good one... I am sure (from what I read at some other forums like Revit, Moi, etc...) that an option of biased renderings in Maxwell (Not biased Maxwell) would add many more customers.

Well, what we're primarily trying to do is not marketing. Of course, more users means a lot. But, our primary goal is strictly maintaining it in a technically correct way without tricks and everybody is aware of this fact. It's better dominating in quality rather than getting lost in approximations. We also believe this philosophy sells better.