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real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:09 pm
by Polyxo
Hi All,
I thought as there are so many people here with an excellent knowledge of Light, Reflections and all
its physical belongings I might ask here as well.
We have recently made the Interiour of a newly opened Shop. All good, but we have some issues with
the Shop-Windows. They are nice and large but they are situated (as the Shop too) in the first Floor.
It's not very high though, Pedestrians could see what's getting presented behind the Windows.

At least in Principle... as no Anti Reflection-Glass had been used at Construction Time all Decoration gets
close to invisible at Daytime. Especially at that Viewing-Angle the Fresnel-Effect makes hefty Reflections
appear.

I researched all sorts of Films to glue onto the Window which should take care of the problem.
It seems there's Solutions for everything: Against Heat, UV-Rays and Grafitti, for Tinting or Back-Projection
and some other stuff. But seemingly nobody has created a usable Foil against Reflections.
One Product which claimed to eleminate Mirror-Reflections soon disappeared from the Market again.

Replacing the Glass with Coated new Glass Sheets is no option. Using tremendous amounts of Light
for the Decoration neither - as the Windows show to the West. One needed to have Filmset-Lighting
at all times to "defeat" the Sun. Would anybody of you have an idea what might help in such a case?

Thanks for any Input!

Holger

Image

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:15 pm
by Hervé
mmmm... difficult one... how about inclining (angled) the windows slightly....

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:21 pm
by Polyxo
Hervé wrote:mmmm... difficult one... how about inclining the windows slightly....
Hi Hervé,
That might help but are not allowed to tilt the House 10°. No seriously:
The Window-Front is relatively new and still in excellent shape. Changing the Angle would cause tremendous work.

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:31 pm
by Hervé
I remember seeing a store that had the windows like this..
screenshot401p.jpg

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:36 pm
by Hervé
Polyxo wrote:
Hervé wrote:mmmm... difficult one... how about inclining the windows slightly....
Hi Hervé,
That might help but are not allowed to tilt the House 10°. No seriously:
The Window-Front is relatively new and still in excellent shape. Changing the Angle would cause tremendous work.
ok, but if it's a matter of business.. maybe no choice..

I'd checked here in new materials... they have lotsa different films.. maybe something for you ..
they have polarized films.. well..

http://www.inventables.com/technologies?tag=Film

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:42 pm
by Hervé
or I just found this..

http://www.shadeswindowfilms.co.uk/anti ... _film.html


(... but looks like you'll have to call them, because it's a new product they have apparently..)

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:48 pm
by Polyxo
Yeah, those Shops have sure done this for a reason! :D
Thing is: Its a rented estate, existing windows are still excellent in shape an making
such a modifikation would mean lots of costs (15m of new custom made Windows
easily mean > 30000€ in my rough estimation. It is really out of the question, my Customer
would kill me. Also one had to close the already opened Shop again for the Construction-Work.

Thanks a lot for the Link. I'll have a look!

Holger

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:51 pm
by Hervé
ok, I understand.. well then the last link might do the trick.. but I would ask a sample first.. hehe.. :)

Cheers..
h/

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:53 pm
by Polyxo
Hervé wrote:or I just found this..

http://www.shadeswindowfilms.co.uk/anti ... _film.html
Yep, I've seen this too and one can still find other Websites listing that Product.

From the description details one can already figure that they are actually advertising
the product which has been pulled from the Market again (talked with the actual Foil-Manufacturer
today and they said that they had too many Reclamations).

This british Guy is only a Service glueing these foils to the Glass and seems not to have
updated his page for a while.

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:49 am
by gotoxy av-media
did you already find a solution?
i am really curious how you`ll solve this problem...
i was also thinking about polarized films first, which will do the trick in photography!

munch

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:07 am
by Polyxo
gotoxy av-media wrote:did you already find a solution?
i am really curious how you`ll solve this problem...
i was also thinking about polarized films first, which will do the trick in photography!

munch
Hi munch,
no, the problem is still unsolved. I just talked with a Scientist from an Institute involved
with optical Product development...

He was very curious in the matter and I may even have inspired some Development-Work but he had
no existing Product to suggest.

Btw - Hervé: Many thanks for your Help!

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:13 pm
by EADC
How about fixed solar shading? Considering viewing angles it could effectively remove reflections.
http://www.adslimited.net/what-we-do.asp

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:45 pm
by Polyxo
EADC wrote:How about fixed solar shading? Considering viewing angles it could effectively remove reflections.
http://www.adslimited.net/what-we-do.asp
Hi EADC, we've considered this as well.
However we wanted to check out less expensive Alternatives first.
But we might well end up doing something like this...

My feeling is that for our high windows which are oriented towards the West one needed very large
Panels at a low angle which might look pretty odd attached that high on the Fassade...

Image

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:30 pm
by rusteberg
your scalie reminds me of wimpy the moocher....

Image

Re: real world Fresnel-Problem - has anybody got an idea?

Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:41 pm
by Polyxo
rusteberg wrote:your scalie reminds me of wimpy the moocher....

Image
hehe...
had to look up who that is.
Pure accident. I drew it in a minute with Rhino.