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HDR Light Studio - make your own HDR lighting images

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:54 pm
by Seggy
Hello,

It's Mark here from HDR Light Studio. We have just released our software tool and I am happy to discuss it with you here. It let's you make your own HDR studio lighting images easily.

To find our more about it please visit: www.hdrlightstudio.com

I look forward to our chat!

Regards

Mark

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:32 pm
by RonB
Well Mark,
If you have been following the other thread I think you see most of us think the price a bit outrageous for what it is. As an example Maxwell is the most sophisticated rendering software on the planet, it produces images that are among, if not, the finest 3D images in the world. And your top tier price, for what I will again say is a "one trick pony" is half the price of Maxwell!!

Capitalism, commerce and what the market can bear is all well and good but it seems to me the business model you use is..."well they are using push button software to render and that means they will pay more because they don't know how to do it themselves". Essentially I think you are ripping people off.

Another point is, how did you expect the majority of the community would react to your software release? We, I am speaking of the general 3D community here, take a software release for whats it worth and judge it on it's overall merits and price, not for the validity of the market share it is aimed at...because we don't know what sector of the market a tool is supposed to be aimed at.

I apologize if this seems a bit harsh but those are my thoughts.

Ron

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:11 pm
by Tea_Bag
RonB wrote:Well Mark,

a "one trick pony" is half the price of Maxwell!!

Ron
Have to agree with RonB's statement!

What pricing structure do you guys think is a good price for each version? (Forum)

Maybe:

Basic - £99 ?
Standard - £199 ?
Pro - £299 ?

Just curious to see what you guys think :wink:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:37 pm
by RonB
I would say $99 for the top tier...

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:06 pm
by yanada
hey Ron.. I think you're right...

buy one real hdri from here

http://www.hdri-studio.com/

and open in PS, and make dozens of different ones...

Ctrl C -- Ctrl V
+ some here for free http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... hp?t=29968
Also you can create your own in most 3d software.

100-150 for pro version

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:15 pm
by Tea_Bag
yanada wrote:
hey Ron.. I think you're right...

buy one real hdri from here

http://www.hdri-studio.com/

and open in PS, and make dozens of different ones...

Ctrl C -- Ctrl V
+ some here for free http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/view ... hp?t=29968
Also you can create your own in most 3d software.

100-150 for pro version

Sounds good to me! :)

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:42 am
by Seggy
"Push button software", as you call it, for rendering is the future of visualisation in the design industry, and beyond that. The current users of this software like Bunkspeed Hypershot are really really smart people - designing the world we will live in in the future. Shaping all our lives!

They spend most of their time in CAD software designing the mechanics of how things work and developing products that are styled beautifully. They are passionate about what they do and making sure from concept to reality all the details are right. These people are designing medical equipment, cars, toys, electronics, everything!

They want software that is fast, interactive and produces great pictures to help them communicate their ideas and designs. They don't do this every day. But in bursts when a deadline approaches or a big presentation.

Every hour spent messing around making renders is an hour they aren't designing the next big thing using their real talents for their clients. Renders for these people is a small part of their big skill set.

We designed our software for these people. These are our kind of people too. We understand them and appreciate them and enjoy working with them. This is our culture.

Could we 'rip' these people off? - no way - they are far too smart and informed for that!

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:36 am
by Mihai
yanada wrote: and open in PS, and make dozens of different ones...
That wouldn't work very well, trying to match the distortion so it looks ok mapped in the scene.

Honestly I think the prices are pretty fair, considering that it's not easy finding HDR studio lighting setups that are free or almost free, that also suit your scenes and are not crap quality. HDR lighting can save you a lot of time (if the map is good!) so if you do a lot of product renders and even car renders I think it would pay for itself quickly. The idea behind is great and it seems easy to work with.

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:15 am
by hyltom
Hi Seggy,

I'm doing product design since more than ten years, so i 'm part of the targeted customer. What you say about people designing car, electronics, toys...is totally true, they mainly focus on designing and the nice picture is just here because they have to communicate their ideas & concept. So if this can be done fast, easily and nicely it's a good point.

You software look like a nice tool to help them to light their products, but it's just a add-on, a plus. It seems you are targeting mainly the people that are using Hypershot...why not. But let me show you something: in my case, i'm using Rhinoceros 3D for the conception. The software cost $995 US. Hypershot HD (limited version) cost $995 US already the same price than rhino...quite expensive just to make some pretty picture and when i say pretty, i'm polite. Already for me Hypershot is like a joke, very limited, not fast and quality of the image is very poor. So then we add your software to that, $700US (and i'm lucky because few month ago i will have spend over $1000US). All this means i have to spend almost two time the price of my main software just to make some rendering. And as you even said earlier, for designer, making pictures is not their main work (they spend less than 10% of their time on it). So i have to pay twice more for something i use 10 times less.
Could we 'rip' these people off? - no way - they are far too smart and informed for that!
A well said statement :wink:

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:25 am
by yanada
That wouldn't work very well, trying to match the distortion so it looks ok mapped in the scene.
there is always a trick but I see your point.
The idea behind is great and it seems easy to work with
The concept is Original very cool but I have to disagree about the price.


$900 for Modo
$650 for hdrlightstudio
Does This Make Seance? Oh I know I should pay more for Modo :lol:

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:33 am
by yanada
quote from core77
Perhaps in response to the roar of approval for Bunkspeed's latest products, the Showcase rendering package has gotten some nice new features (integrated raytracing, custom HDRI environments, tools for comparing design variants) and a nice price cut, from US$5000 to US$1000.

Sales time or useless software?

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:43 am
by Bubbaloo
yanada wrote:Does This Make Seance?
Image

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:58 am
by RonB
Seggy - Yep, we will see more and more "Push button software" And one day I will probably be using it too. But that's a topic for a whole other discussion of quality versus ease of use, industry standards etc.
Could we 'rip' these people off? - no way - they are far too smart and informed for that!
That is a great sound bite! But yes you can ripe them off and I still believe you are. Mihai agrees with your price point, I wouldn't expect him not too. I don't and I am one of the people who could be a customer, even though I am not designing the tools that are shaping our lives I still use various kinds of 3D related programs.

I like what your program does, it serves a good function and I would buy it...but not at the price you are asking...absolutely not.

It's my opinion that you good people missed an opportunity to make even more money on your package, if that's what it's about...the bottom line, by not offering it at a much lower price and appealing to a far broader market.

But you stated that you designed the software specifically for the designers you describe above and by inference, not other 3D users.

You could saturate the "push button" market and then offer a lower priced version with less functions for the more general 3D user's market. You inferred that in your email. That doesn't sit very well with me either, I don't appreciate tiered price and adjusted function structures. Makes me feel punished for not being able to afford the "best" version.

The long and short of it is we disagree on the price and that's about it.

Just to be clear here. I don't think you guys are "bad" people, you are probably, as you said, good people there.

This could lead to a whole very interesting discussion on intellectual property , which we all have a vested interest in, but again that's a topic for a whole other thread.

Thanks for joining in, listening and saying what you have.

Cheers, Ron

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:43 am
by bbuxton
Pity there is no Mac version. I do think that it is expensive but perhaps if the product was more feature rich I would be tempted.

If you could generate the lights with IES data & render to HDR I'd go for it even at the current prices.

BB

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:47 am
by Seggy
The version of software that most people buy is HDR Light Studio -Standard that produces lighting images 5,000 pixels wide with Unlimited light sources. Each pixel is super sampled and the quality therefore super high. All our renders on our website have been done using only 1,500 pixel wide HDRs. Yet still look good.

The price of HDR Light Studio - Standard is £299 (around $425). Compare the price of HDR images bought online for $60 each or your time making them if you charge $60 per hour then this is good value to quickly make your own unlimited HDRs forever.

Please don't be that concerned about the Pro products price, this is simply for users who want to product really really big HDRs. It's something we have been asked for by customers and creating a 50,000 pixels wide HDR take some serious maths.

I disagree about the capabilities of HyperShot and think it is a really excellent visualisation tool which gets better and better with many free updates coming through the year for existing customers - just like with maxwell. I find the interactive way of working a revelation. They are about the release a new version with new texture mapping tools and this was one major draw back before, but has just got much much better. Again updated for free.