Everything related to Maxwell Render and General Stuff that doesn't fit in other categories
#400425
Hi there,
with the new Apple Silicon platform on the horizon I was wondering, if Nextlimit is planning to support the new processors.
You might wonder why. Because with only a fraction of money one could buy a windows machine, that renders even faster than even Apple Silicon (or Metal GPU) will ever do for the same price.
But... a lot of creative professionals are using Macs and they love their Macs. Most of them wouldn't intend to use their Macs for final production renderings for clients. For this purpose they might hire an external freelancer. But from my point of view it is very convenient to use Maxwell Render for superb and very yummy clay renderings and light simulations. Until now I love to do this inhouse, mainly for internal use. The rendering process might be slower than the competition, but with Maxwell it is much more easier to create very beautiful lighting.
The beauty with Apple Silicon and M1 is, that it is very easy to create apps that run on both iOS and macOS. So maybe you can find some interesting application to use maxwell render technology on iOS devices and get access to a much larger customer base.
So I'm hoping for Apple Silicon support and despite the other thread I'm also hoping for Metal support.

Kind regards
Carl
#400426
Oh boy!
Totally agree. I think Maxwell should support it.
And Multilight App - for iPad - is what you want :)) ultimate presentation / customisation tool 🤷‍♀️

I'm not sure what would make you feel that you can't do final production on Macs - I'm doing it and feeling myself great :))
Those who would like to save on IT support and antidepressant pills - prefer to work on Mac :) I agree :)

I think, the primary reason, beside the tech specs and the audience slice, numbers and benchmarks - on why NextLimit should support Apple Silicon and Macs in general is because of emotional part of the process. As you said it creative professionals love their Macs. We enjoy working on them. Maxwell should be part of the enjoyment process - then it is not just pure work - it's more than that. Tools do feel lighter in your hand when you actually enjoying what you're doing.

And for the same reason I think Maxwell should support windows machines as well. As there are people who really (like for real) enjoy working in windows environment.

That is why, I think that instead of giving up on certain plugins, or integrations, or cards, or chips - there should be a little bit more strategic approach in mind. If internal resources are shrinking or priorities are shifted - then you should adjust your way of delivering the product as well .. not simple cutting of some plugins or card support but rather rethinking how can you deliver with existing resources - and there are plenty of solutions out there.

And, of course - our wonderful community is here to give insights and help to be a perfect focus group :)
#400430
Thank you - I totally agree.
Of course I think one can make final production on a Mac but anybody who needs to have massive rendering capacity would consider windows based machines or cloud render farms. But anyway - I'm sure there are a lot of commercial opportunities for rendering applications with iOS or macOS enthusiasts.
#400457
I really hope Maxwell Render will be made fully compatible with the new Apple silicon soon. My old Mac needs to be replaced after 12 years of excellent and faithful service, and I'm waiting for the new Macs to come out to choose the right balance between cost and performance :) .
It will still be necessary that Maxwell works well on this new technology otherwise it will be useless !! :( :(
I hope Next Limit will remedy this soon and would be delighted if some moderator would let us know how they are dealing with the problem. 8)
Thanks to anyone who wants to contribute :D :D

Leo
#400481
Based on my understanding of the M1 architecture and how it compares to the lagging Intel development, it would make absolutely no sense for a power-hungry application like Maxwell wouldn't leap to support the new architecture. The initial M1 is the introductory chip sitting in the base-level macs. That suggests that Apple has a real beast in store for the upper-level machines and possibly an ultra disruptive solution for their top-of-the-line pro machines...

Hopefully, the new architecture will offer advantages to Maxwell's resource-intensive calculations that have been elusive with Intel's older technology.
#400483
There is only one thing that would stop people considering M1 based system.

Price

Removing Intel from the equation we have still AMD far more affordable and less costly Threadripper.
Price for performance is absolutely a must when you’ve to consider your budget building up your workstations.

With 12.000€ you could build up a system with a 3990x, 128 GB ram and eventually 4x 1080TI
And you’ve even full support for ECC ram.

With less you could build a system with a 3970x and two RTX 3090 , 128 GB ram.
And if you don’t find a 3090 you could throw in some 1080 or 1080 Ti and they’re good enough for GPU rendering.

A top configured Macpro is over 60.000€ with less performance of a Windows based system around Threadripper and some mid tier GPU.

Even if M1 will be a beast of a chip, price for performance will suck.
And AMD will not stay there watching Apple improving :wink:

Even compared to a Windows OEM system ( HP , Dell ...) based to Threadripper you will have more performance per dollars upon a Mac system.

I have still some workstation based upon dual Xeon, still running and rendering.
When a motherboard died I replaced it on my own and I was back rendering in one day.

Good luck doing the same with a Mac Pro :mrgreen:
#400484
Hi Matteo,
unfortunately I am very ignorant on the subject and honestly I don't want to invest my time in knowing all the codes / models and performances of all motherboards / graphics cards etc. etc. :D
That's why I've chosen and will continue to choose Mac. 8) 8)
I have an old MacPro I have been using for 10 years and it has never broken. in these 10 years I have concentrated on my work and not on the thousand hardware innovations ... personally I think it is useless. they change every 5min. !! :roll: :roll:
Now it's time to change Mac and I'm looking around .. as soon as I do I will be back to do my job for another 10 years and so on ... :D
I'm sure everything you say is right but my job is rendering ... that's all. :D

Leo
#400485
Knowledge is power.

Know when and where invest your money is important even more then know how to setup a rendering.

If you love Mac OS and feel comfortable using it that’s a plus for your workload.

But being conscious about the fact price for performance on Mac is far behind a system build around AMD Threadripper is absolutely proved.

If you don’t want to build your next system you can buy and even configure one done by DELL or HP.

Less money spent
More performance overall
Same or better assistance from the OEM,
especially for business

10 years is a huge gap hardware wise.

Especially for rendering using Maxwell render, in the time you make one usable render I can make around 30/40

So you’re underperforming and slowing down your workload and make yourself less competitive on the long run.

If you plan to upgrade with a 10 years gap, could be useful consider using a Render farm service.

You will have a loot of processing power for a good price.
#400489
Wow! Your analysis is extremely accurate !!
So precise that I believe that somehow you know me .... :)
You almost seem to know when I have deliveries, how much I'm losing in money, what I should have done 10 years ago, what would be better to do now .... it seems like you know exactly how I use my computer and my time. ... :) :)
I'm glad you worry if I'm underperforming my work ... :) :)
In any case, don't worry about me
As soon as the time comes I'll buy my new Mac that suits my needs ... and if these needs change after 1 year I'll buy another new Mac ... :) :)

Of course there is some irony ... but no meanness ... :D :D

Leo
#400490
Leonardo Giomarelli wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:23 pm
Wow! Your analysis is extremely accurate !!
So precise that I believe that somehow you know me .... :)
You almost seem to know when I have deliveries, how much I'm losing in money, what I should have done 10 years ago, what would be better to do now .... it seems like you know exactly how I use my computer and my time. ... :) :)
I'm glad you worry if I'm underperforming my work ... :) :)
In any case, don't worry about me
As soon as the time comes I'll buy my new Mac that suits my needs ... and if these needs change after 1 year I'll buy another new Mac ... :) :)

Of course there is some irony ... but no meanness ... :D :D

Leo

Your money
Your business
Your decision :mrgreen:

Trying to be useful but seems you’ve taken it personally.

Good luck and best wishes for your future :wink:
#400821
Hi Maxwell team,
Still nothing new about M1 Mac? :D
Are you working on it? Are you close to release? Or are you not interested in wasting time on this thing? 8)
I'd love to hear from you ... whatever it is. :roll:
I am waiting for this information to decide on the purchase of a new computer for my work ... :(

Thank you

Leo
#400822
Just tuned in to this thread. I have the base configuration on the M1 Mac mini. I'm using it to host my floating licenses. I also have an AMD Threadripper workstation. So, if helpful, here are a few specs:

Moet Chandon scene --render time on M1 Mac is 11m34s (Threadripper renders at 4m34s)
Bottles on window sill scene --render time on M1 Mac is 19m59s (Threadripper renders at 7m42s)
Refreshing soda can scene --render time on M1 Mac is 3m21s (Threadripper renders at 1m12s)

Other observations:

The pre-processing time is blazingly fast on the M1 Mac! I was blown away by that. Practically every scene I opened pre-processed almost instantly. So, I was up and rendering in no time at all. I don't know why that is, do you? My guess it it might be that the Apple OS is just more robust than the Windows OS in general. I don't know. It was definitely an unexpected surprise.

Usability on the M1 Mac seems more pleasant all around. But, obviously, the Threadripper renders a lot faster. The increased pre-processing times on the Windows machines makes the Windows machine seem much slower to render than it actually is --and less pleasant to use generally.

Perhaps some of the decreased robustness on the Windows 10 Threadripper machine can be attributed to difficulties the Windows OS is having with the AMD hardware. I say that because my Windows 8.1 Xeon machine also seems more robust than the Threadripper in everyday general use. And too, I've had persistent mouse lag issues on Windows 10 from the start --yes, I've tried it all --do a search on the internet; it's insane. I hardly use the machine because of it to be honest.

Now that I realize Maxwell Studio v5 is also more pleasant to use on the M1 Mac i may resort to using it as my everyday Maxwell Studio machine and just use the Threadripper to render.

To conclude, the Threadripper renders a lot faster (and is also a lot louder --roaring fans) than the M1 Mac (no noise at all and barely even warm to the touch). But because the Windows 10 OS seems less robust all around than the Apple OS it's far more pleasant using the M1 Mac with Maxwell Studio v5 --and in general really. Theblazingly fast pre-processing times on the M1 Mac is just ridiculous!! Ridiculously fast!

Hope that helps you out!
#400823
It just occurs to me that the Threadripper is rendering faster than the M1 Mac because it has more cores! Duh . . . So, an M1 Mac with more cores should leave the Threadripper in the dust all around when it comes to Studio v5. (Clearly, that phenomenally fast pre-processing time is going to be a huge factor down the road!)

For the curious --the GPU (Fire) previews seem about the same on both machines. So, I don't think you're getting much of a difference there --between these two configurations.

Again, it's the pre-processing times on the M1 Mac that will make the biggest difference when you match the CPU cores.

p.s. I don't know if Maxwell Studio v5 is already optimized for the M1 chip or not. All of this may be attributable to Rosetta 2. If that is the case, then an optimized Studio should be even faster!
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