[Fille]

Thanks JD for the new plug-in!
After working with it for a while I noticed some bugs (?) and/or perhaps behavior I don't understand.

Dragging materials from Scene Manager / Materials to the Rhino Layer window makes the cursor disappear (over the Rhino Layer window) - I can't see to what layer I'm trying to assign a material. Problem with my graphics card(s)? Same problem on three different computers (with 1.7)...

Because of the above mentioned problem I've been assigning materials through Layers / Material Library / Material Picker - which is great (but slower) as you can assign the same material to more than one layer at once (could we have 'multi-assigning' with dragging also . However, the Material Picker has to be resized the first time in a new session (It's to small in my opinion). It doesn't remember it's size between sessions.

Scene Manager problem / Location doesn't stick between sessions. It seems to always revert to default March 20, 4:00 p.m. even if I have it at July 20, 11.56 a.m. or whatever... To correct this I have to go to Date & Time, click on a.m, change it to p.m and change it back to a.m. Same thing with Month... July > whatever > July. Finland / Helsinki also "disappears" from the drop-down between sessions.

Scene Manager / Materials: Sort order doesn't stick in the same session - or between sessions (list set to 'tile').

Material Editor: There's always the lambertian "L" next to The roughness parameter - even if roughness is set to something else than 100 (changing it to whatever and changing it back makes it disappear).

Database Manager... The idea is great, but I don't know if it really works as it should. When you make a new material in a file it doesn't always update.
The "volume" button at the bottom doesn't work correctly - it opens another file than the one that is highlighted in the list. You have to right-click the file in the list and select "Volume View." The "Materials"-button works as expected.

The biggest problem however, is that materials don't update when I copy files from my home computer to my computer at work (and the other way around). If I work on a file at home, make new materials or change old materials in the file, I can't see the changes when I open my file at work - big problem! Doesn't seem to always happen with smaller files, but always with a bigger one I have... What can possibly be causing this? Can it be related to the Database Manager? This is something I really would like to know how to fix!

Sorry for the long list JD... I really appreciate your hard work and I still think that your plug-in is the best thing that has ever happened to Rhino / Maxwell!
Thanks!

Philip

[JDHill]

Hi Philip,

Thanks for the report, I'll respond in-line...

Thanks JD for the new plug-in!
After working with it for a while I noticed some bugs (?) and/or perhaps behavior I don't understand.

Dragging materials from Scene Manager / Materials to the Rhino Layer window makes the cursor disappear (over the Rhino Layer window) - I can't see to what layer I'm trying to assign a material. Problem with my graphics card(s)? Same problem on three different computers (with 1.7)...

Turn off hardware-acceleration for bitmaps & cursors in your video card's settings (usually in the Troubleshooting tab), or else set the plugin option 'Use Custom Cursors' to 'No'.

Because of the above mentioned problem I've been assigning materials through Layers / Material Library / Material Picker - which is great (but slower) as you can assign the same material to more than one layer at once (could we have 'multi-assigning' with dragging also . However, the Material Picker has to be resized the first time in a new session (It's to small in my opinion). It doesn't remember it's size between sessions.


Yes, it doesn't remember its' size; I didn't think this was necessary, but I can change it. I don't believe it's possible to assign to multiple layers using dragdrop, though (I don't think there's any way for the plugin to know which layers are selected).

Scene Manager problem / Location doesn't stick between sessions. It seems to always revert to default March 20, 4:00 p.m. even if I have it at July 20, 11.56 a.m. or whatever... To correct this I have to go to Date & Time, click on a.m, change it to p.m and change it back to a.m. Same thing with Month... July > whatever > July. Finland / Helsinki also "disappears" from the drop-down between sessions.

Do you mean it doesn't stick between sessions, or it is not saved correctly in files? It is not supposed to be persistent from session to session - those values you see are the defaults for a new document - but if these things aren't being saved in specific documents, then there is a problem.

Scene Manager / Materials: Sort order doesn't stick in the same session - or between sessions (list set to 'tile').

This is working fine here, please let me know of any other details you may have.

Material Editor: There's always the lambertian "L" next to The roughness parameter - even if roughness is set to something else than 100 (changing it to whatever and changing it back makes it disappear).

Yep, I see this.

Database Manager... The idea is great, but I don't know if it really works as it should. When you make a new material in a file it doesn't always update.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

The "volume" button at the bottom doesn't work correctly - it opens another file than the one that is highlighted in the list. You have to right-click the file in the list and select "Volume View." The "Materials"-button works as expected.

That is the correct operation - clicking the 'Volume View' button in the db manager's lower toolbar just shows that page - as it says there (when it's empty), you need to right-click a volume or material to change which volume it is currently showing.

The biggest problem however, is that materials don't update when I copy files from my home computer to my computer at work (and the other way around). If I work on a file at home, make new materials or change old materials in the file, I can't see the changes when I open my file at work - big problem! Doesn't seem to always happen with smaller files, but always with a bigger one I have... What can possibly be causing this? Can it be related to the Database Manager? This is something I really would like to know how to fix!

It is working correctly there - it is designed primarily for working on the same machine. If you want to work with the same file on multiple machines, you can do so, but you will want to use a specific strategy:

1. make a new Volume which will hold the materials you create for the new document
2. work on the model
3. save the document
4. transport the document to another machine and open it in Rhino
5. you will see that the materials found in the document have been added into a new Volume in that machine's database - they should look the same as they did when saved
6. work on the document on this machine
7. save the document
8. back at the original machine, open Rhino and delete the Volume you created in step 1
9. open the document - just as in step 5, the materials will be added back into the database as soon as they are read from the document

There are other ways to deal with this as well using import/export of material libraries, but this is probably the quickest & easiest way. I'll have to add an option or a dialog in the future that will determine which 'version' of materials will be used in scenarios like this.

Sorry for the long list JD... I really appreciate your hard work and I still think that your plug-in is the best thing that has ever happened to Rhino / Maxwell!
Thanks!

Philip

[Fille]

Quick as usual... Thanks JD!

Turn off hardware-acceleration for bitmaps & cursors in your video card's settings (usually in the Troubleshooting tab), or else set the plugin option 'Use Custom Cursors' to 'No'.

Custom Cursors No did it! (Any drawbacks with disabling?)

Yes, it doesn't remember its' size; I didn't think this was necessary, but I can change it.

If you can change it -that would be nice!

I don't believe it's possible to assign to multiple layers using dragdrop, though (I don't think there's any way for the plugin to know which layers are selected).

Ok, no big deal...

Do you mean it doesn't stick between sessions, or it is not saved correctly in files? It is not supposed to be persistent from session to session - those values you see are the defaults for a new document - but if these things aren't being saved in specific documents, then there is a problem.

Not saved correctly in files - so 'Location' isn't synchronized with 'Date & Time' (wasn't in 1.6 either). So yes, there is a problem... (Is the default March 20 your birthday or...

This is working fine here, please let me know of any other details you may have.

I don't know what to say... My materials just re-order themselves and jump around as they please... If I have tem set to 'descending' I have to click 'ascending' > 'descending' to re-order them.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Yeah, that sounded odd... My English... I mean that I don't always see it appear in the Database Manager, if it's open.

That is the correct operation - clicking the 'Volume View' button in the db manager's lower toolbar just shows that page - as it says there (when it's empty), you need to right-click a volume or material to change which volume it is currently showing.

Eh, ok... It wasn't obvious to me - obviously

It is working correctly there - it is designed primarily for working on the same machine. If you want to work with the same file on multiple machines, you can do so, but you will want to use a specific strategy:

1. make a new Volume which will hold the materials you create for the new document
2. work on the model
3. save the document
4. transport the document to another machine and open it in Rhino
5. you will see that the materials found in the document have been added into a new Volume in that machine's database - they should look the same as they did when saved
6. work on the document on this machine
7. save the document
8. back at the original machine, open Rhino and delete the Volume you created in step 1
9. open the document - just as in step 5, the materials will be added back into the database as soon as they are read from the document

1. I don't have to make a new volume, have I? It gets created whenever I start a new file, import some materials and save the file, right?
Everything seems to work like in 1.6 (which is fine) - except for point 8! You didn't have to do that in 1.6 (Of course not - we didn't have a Database Manager).
My problems with some files is probably me skipping point 8 (didn't know I had to delete a volume).

I'll have to add an option or a dialog in the future that will determine which 'version' of materials will be used in scenarios like this.

Great, if this could be streamlined to work as in 1.6.

Thanks JD!

Philip

[JDHill]

Custom Cursors No did it! (Any drawbacks with disabling?)

Not really - it would show a thumbnail of the material instead of the regular dragdrop cursor, but if it's not working with your video card settings then disabling is fine.

Not saved correctly in files - so 'Location' isn't synchronized with 'Date & Time' (wasn't in 1.6 either). So yes, there is a problem... (Is the default March 20 your birthday or...

Naw, nothing special; Mar. 20 is just the vernal equinox (in the northern hemisphere). Problem is, it is saving in files fine here, and I haven't had any other reports of any problem like this in 1.7. I guess, to boil things down to the simplest case, if you: create a document, change the date/time, save, close, and re-open, is the date/time recalled? If not, can you let me know what regional settings you use in Windows (i.e. decimal-separator issues '.' vs. ',').

I don't know what to say... My materials just re-order themselves and jump around as they please... If I have tem set to 'descending' I have to click 'ascending' > 'descending' to re-order them.

I think I see what you are talking about - the list doesn't auto-sort whenever something is added. I'll see what I can do about that, but for the time being, you could try setting the sort type to None, and that should keep things from moving around.


For the rest of the issues, I think there may be a slight misunderstanding of what/how the Database Manager is/works. To contrast between 1.7 and other versions, in previous versions:

- materials were only ever saved directly in .3dm files
- subsequently, it was not possible to use the 'same' material in two files. You could import/export libraries, but the materials all had lives of their own in the .3dm in which they were contained

In 1.7:

- materials are always saved in the database
- two .3dms may use the 'same' material - changes to that material will be effective in both files

Even though materials exist in the database, independent of any particular .3dm, it is still necessary for the plugin to save them in .3dms as well, to accomplish document-portability which requires no tag-along material files. How this is done is:

- when a .3dm is opened, the materials saved inside are searched in the database (they all have unique IDs)
- for each one which is found to exist in the database, the database version is used
- for each one which is not found in the database, it is added to the database immediately. It is added to a new volume named for the .3dm

This is why it's necessary now to delete the volume (i.e. step 8 ) when you want to work on the same file on different machines - the changes you've made on your home machine are indeed contained in the .3dm, but they are ignored when those materials are found in the database on your work machine. When you delete the volume, then this is no longer the case, and the materials are added to the database once again.

As I alluded to earlier, this aspect will be streamlined as the plugin continues to evolve.

Cheers...

[Fille]

Hi again...

I guess, to boil things down to the simplest case, if you: create a document, change the date/time, save, close, and re-open, is the date/time recalled? If not, can you let me know what regional settings you use in Windows (i.e. decimal-separator issues '.' vs. ',').

I probably did a poor job explaining... I tried it with a new, simple file and it's working like all the other files... that is: Date & Time has the new, saved D & T, yes, but the LOCATION-tab isn't synchronized with D & T. The Location-tab still has the default date and time (March 20...).
Finnish regional settings on both computers. Finnish Windows XP (32) on my work machine, english on my home computer - same problem on both.

I'll see what I can do about that, but for the time being, you could try setting the sort type to None, and that should keep things from moving around.

I think I tried that... Have to try it again.

As I alluded to earlier, this aspect will be streamlined as the plugin continues to evolve.

Thanks for the additional info. I did look in the help file, but it obviously wasn't enough for me... Thanks for the 'streamline-promise'
Reducing mouse clicks is a nice goal to keep in mind... Very ecological also! Less is more!

Thanks again!

Philip

[NoahPhense]

Turn off hardware-acceleration for bitmaps & cursors in your video card's settings (usually in the Troubleshooting tab), or else set the plugin option 'Use Custom Cursors' to 'No'.

Since SR4 I can't drag and drop any materials into a viewport. I have tried
the above, but to no avail.

- np

*edit*

I've tried quite a few different things. The drag n drop work only to and from
the MW windows. Not that I would use that any how. I prefer to use the
"Select and Assign". But even then I still have to drag n drop the material
from the MXM browser to the Materials windows within the "Scene Manager".
Then I can "Select and Assign".

Would be nice to have the "Select and Assign" right in the MXM browser.

- np

[JDHill]

I probably did a poor job explaining... I tried it with a new, simple file and it's working like all the other files... that is: Date & Time has the new, saved D & T, yes, but the LOCATION-tab isn't synchronized with D & T. The Location-tab still has the default date and time (March 20...).
Finnish regional settings on both computers. Finnish Windows XP (32) on my work machine, english on my home computer - same problem on both.

Hmm, unfortunately I am still unable to duplicate this. I used Finnish settings and every time I open the file, the globe spins around to where it should be, and the readouts above it show the saved date/time.

But even then I still have to drag n drop the material
from the MXM browser to the Materials windows within the "Scene Manager".
Then I can "Select and Assign".

See the other drag/drop thread...I guess I shouldn't have told you to install SR4 so casually, but really I don't think I can recall ever seeing an SR break existing functionality before.

Would be nice to have the "Select and Assign" right in the MXM browser.

I don't think I'll do that because I don't want to encourage importing MXMs into the database an unnecessary number of times - the MXM Browser is really only meant as a way to get MXM files into the database. Unless you want multiple copies of the same MXM which are somewhat different than one another, there is almost no reason to ever import the same MXM twice.

Cheers,

JD

[NoahPhense]

So then it is confirmed that the SR has broken the drag n drop?

My rhino install is clean. No added plugins other than MW.

- np

[Fille]

Hi!

Hmm, unfortunately I am still unable to duplicate this. I used Finnish settings and every time I open the file, the globe spins around to where it should be, and the readouts above it show the saved date/time.

Well, thanks anyway for trying! Hmmm, now I don't know what to try next...

Philip